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+--- Thread: WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? (/thread-5992.html)
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - ALPHA OMEGA - 15th December 2003
As you all know a lot of interesting things have been brewing within d&b & a lot of negative stuff has also crept in also.
Distributors dropping a lot of labels
Distributors going bankrupt
Labels shutting down
Artists chasing the money
Cocaine & pixie dust
Artists feeling alienated & unfairly critisized from their audience when they go on boards like DOA,DNBA,etc...
Rapidly declining vinyl sales
& it makes me wonder,what does the future of this music really look like?
With everybody doing their best to segregate themselves from one another & act like their shit don't stink,how's this music going to progress?
The whole ideology which was the underlying thread at the birth of rave was 'everybody under one roof raving together'
Now you couldn't be further from that if you tried.
What's happened?
Now everbody's like 'My stuff's great,whatever don't sound like how I want it to sound is crap'
Nobody's looking to unite the whole spectrum of d&b in anywhich way,shape or form & that's a fact!
I ain't gonna go on no huge rant but it's just weird to see something you thought u knew change into something which ,on the whole & truthfully,you just don't relate to at all
So what does the future really hold for this music
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - john doe - 15th December 2003
AO
fecking great points
fecking great thread
im gonna ponder this one for a while
i do have to admit you are true at that segregation.....ive seen it too, but i think there's as many people doing it as there are people going against it (i, for one play all kinds of dnb in the end, i even have sets where there's feckin Twisted Individual tunes in there, depending on the occassion etc etc...)
in the end i came into this music from a diverse background, so why not put my musical diversity into playing out as well, you see, incorporating techno and electro into it as well....all that matters to me, at a party, is that my fucking audience has a blast....
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Altered Ego - 15th December 2003
I hope the music does begin to die off and go back underground, that way you will lose the kids that have latched onto the music as a fashion accesory and see it as cool thing to do as Garage has gone away, you begin to get rid of the rot they have brought along and then DnB will begin to sort itself out.
Underground is the best place for this music.
Its a shame its mostly about money nowadays.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - john doe - 15th December 2003
i think Altered Ego that it goes in waves this underground/exposure thing, but i do doubt that with the rise of messageboards like DOA and this one and lots more if the music will really go underground again...
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - esb - 15th December 2003
i hear ya on the cocaine bits...
this post sounds a little cokey to me...
http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176008
peruvian flu, interesting use of cd cases... sounds snorty to me
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - noisemonkey - 15th December 2003
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:Cocaine & pixie dust
blantly over use of the old marching powder from certain producers.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - erbanta - 15th December 2003
Altered Ego Wrote:I hope the music does begin to die off and go back underground, that way you will lose the kids that have latched onto the music as a fashion accesory and see it as cool thing to do as Garage has gone away, you begin to get rid of the rot they have brought along and then DnB will begin to sort itself out.
Underground is the best place for this music.
Its a shame its mostly about money nowadays.
i just fucking hate to agre with this..
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Altered Ego - 15th December 2003
erbanta Wrote:i just fucking hate to agre with this..
But you do ?
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - erbanta - 15th December 2003
Altered Ego Wrote:erbanta Wrote:i just fucking hate to agre with this..
But you do ?
that's why i hate it so much.. because from the point of view i usually approach things i can't disagree with what you said.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Code - 15th December 2003
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:it makes me wonder,what does the future of this music really look like?
With everybody doing their best to segregate themselves from one another & act like their shit don't stink,how's this music going to progress?
The whole ideology which was the underlying thread at the birth of rave was 'everybody under one roof raving together'
Now you couldn't be further from that if you tried.
What's happened?
Now everbody's like 'My stuff's great,whatever don't sound like how I want it to sound is crap'
Nobody's looking to unite the whole spectrum of d&b in anywhich way,shape or form & that's a fact!
I ain't gonna go on no huge rant but it's just weird to see something you thought u knew change into something which ,on the whole & truthfully,you just don't relate to at all
So what does the future really hold for this music
I agree... but all this happened because promoters for some reason deemed it wrong to have Dj's playing different styles in one room. I remember mid 90's how Fabio wasn't being booked any more in the main D&B rooms coz he was that bit more musical than everyone else... this to me really set the seeds for the segregation that followed.
Also, the more well known Dj's seemed to forget all about having their own style. Previously, Hype had his own sound, Fabio had his, so did Doc Scott and so on, now - don't they all sound the same? (Maybe Fabio is a little different but the difference would have stood out alot more in the nineties!)
So, I blame the so called originators for the decline. Yes - they made D&B but in my eyes they've also contibuted to the musics decline in recent years.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - mad marshal - 15th December 2003
dont forget that a lot of those who are hailed as the few remaining innovators are exactly as elitist and separatist as everybody.
you either like pure dancefloor-dnb (which is often considered as the only "true" form of it) or you like atmos-/drumfunk-/liquid-/whatever-dnb, but there seems to be little love for the general variety and mix of all sub- and subsubgenres. after all, this variety was the strength of the music, as AO quite rightly mentioned.
people have become very stubborn and closeminded when it comes to their scene-defining sound and wont accept nothing else.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Altered Ego - 15th December 2003
mad marshal Wrote:you either like pure dancefloor-dnb (which is often considered as the only "true" form of it) or you like atmos-/drumfunk-/liquid-/whatever-dnb, but there seems to be little love for the general variety and mix of all sub- and subsubgenres. after all, this variety was the strength of the music, as AO quite rightly mentioned.
I don't necesarrily think that is true, i think people have preferences but i wouldn't say that its a case of one or the other.
I Know a few people on this board who listen to drum and bass in its ugly entirity everything from Twisted to Paradox.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - ALPHA OMEGA - 15th December 2003
Y'all r just focusing on Y d&b has a certain sound/resurgence of nu-jump up
what about the rest of the music?
What's the future for that & for the 'scene'
in general?What areas are you seeing a neglect in & where would u like to see less focus?
How comes this music never capitalized on the successes of the 90's
Timeless,Miles From Home,New Forms,2 Pages,Modus Operandi,Colours,etc...
What's the future for this nasty beast we call jungle?
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - karbonkid - 15th December 2003
i listen to a lot, from calibre to teebee to deep blue klute to polar to breakage to spirit to paradox to marcus intallex to fanu to AO to senses equinox frax & nep etc etc.
but with our parties we push what is under-represented...simple
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Altered Ego - 15th December 2003
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:Y'all r just focusing on Y d&b has a certain sound/resurgence of nu-jump up
what about the rest of the music?
What's the future for that & for the 'scene'
What areas are you seeing a neglect in & where would u like to see less focus?
How comes this music never capitalized on the successes of the 90's
Timeless,Miles From Home,New Forms,2 Pages,Modus Operandi,Colours,etc...
What's the future for this nasty beast we call jungle?
What do you think ?
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - karbonkid - 15th December 2003
and to answer your question... i think 1 very good thing is that dnb is now worldwide, the only thing that needs to happen is to open up the market and the minds so that every type of tune gets a proper chance...voila!
now, how that's gonna happen is another thing...
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Logos - 15th December 2003
alpha omega Wrote:y'all r just focusing on y d&b has a certain sound/resurgence of nu-jump up
what about the rest of the music?
what's the future for that & for the 'scene'
what areas are you seeing a neglect in & where would u like to see less focus?
how comes this music never capitalized on the successes of the 90's
timeless,miles from home,new forms,2 pages,modus operandi,colours,etc...
what's the future for this nasty beast we call jungle?
i love timeless, but i'm not a fan of the other lps (not even modus operandi, i didn't feel it represented photek's best work). most of the time i don't think dance music works particularly well in the long play format, so its difficult to represent yourself at the international 'artist' level.
additionally there was a load of nonsense with majors signing people up and then never putting stuff out, or what did eventually emerge was sub-standard. as for success, i think a lot of artists associated 'pusing the music forward' with starting to play 'real' instruments and going out as a live band - a fundemental mistake imo. this is only my opinion, but i feel they neglected the production side of their work, and lots of good creative artists went awol in the late nineties. i agree with omni trio in thinking that the 'live' aspect of our music is the dancefloor and the relationship between the dj and the dancefloor. no disrespect to anyone who is interested in exploring the live parameters of this sound though
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Code - 15th December 2003
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:Y'all r just focusing on Y d&b has a certain sound/resurgence of nu-jump up
what about the rest of the music?
What's the future for that & for the 'scene' in general?
What areas are you seeing a neglect in & where would u like to see less focus?
What I'm saying is:
If every Dj had the balls to stick to their own sound no matter what the scene trend and if the promoters had the balls to mix up the music policy at their events, things would be a whole lot better.
For instance, in Limerick there's 5 of us D&B Dj's... I think you know my style... Bee plays along the same kinda line... then Roller T is completely different - he plays hard and fast techy stuff (with some jump-up thrown in too!), Cain is on more of a rollin' tip and then Deep Cut plays EVERYTHING! Basically though, if you come to one of our nights you hear EVERY style of D&B.
That's what it's about. We all have our individual preferences but even though I run the night I never ask anyone to change their style (even if I'm not particularily into it) coz that's what makes things interesting.
I reckon the future for the scene would be much brighter if promoters took some risks!
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - UFO_over_easy - 15th December 2003
Code, I don't understand what you mean by DJ's having their own sound. They just play other peoples music. Their only purpose that I can see, is to cause havoc on the dancefloor. Their deck skills obviously haven't got any worse, so surely the quality of output from the producers their playing has got to be the only explanation for the fact that they now all "sound the same."
AO - just one thing I'd like to say. Do you actually know that vinyl sales are on the decline? I read recently that 7" single sales have more than trippled since two years ago. My own thoughts on this part of your post are that everything happens in cycles - now guitars are outselling decks again, but in five years time or so, I reckon dance music will be more trendy again, and a few years after that rock will rise again etc etc etc...
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - LXC - 15th December 2003
.
SCENE MUSIC IS KILLING MUSIC
.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Blunt - 15th December 2003
I don't this trend is exclusive to drum n bass, and a lot of the things you've pointed do is indicative of dance music and the underground culture in Britain as a whole.
I agree, when I started out raving in the early-mid 90s, the ethos was all about people doing their own thing, making their own rules, a sense of community almost. I remember going to nights where Paul Oakenfold and Grooverider played in the same club, where Carl Cox would play shitty little dives just cos of the vibe.
The focus was all about the music - not many people were gonna get rich, and that wasn't the point anyway.
Now, dance music and underground culture has become corporatised, turned into a fashion trend, over-exploited, watered-down, sanitised, which is a real shame.
Maybe in the early 90s, there was more of a spirit of rebellion, a kind of 'fuck the establishment' feeling about it, DJs didn't think they were superstars, big clubs didn't flog mix CDs in supermarkets.
Those people have got older, settled down, got kids, mortgages, etc, and the younger generation coming through aren't bothered about counter-culture stuff or 'keeping it underground'. They're more concerned with getting twatted to some toytown shite in a club sponsored by a mobile phone company.
Saying that, I don't want to get too depressed about it. There's still a phenomenal amount of incredible music being produced in all spheres of dance music, and a lot of good, smaller clubs pushing decent music and talent.
From experiences of clubbing outside London and outside the UK, this underground, independent spirit seems to be stronger outside the jaded scene in the capital.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Naphta - 15th December 2003
logos Wrote:i love timeless, but i'm not a fan of the other lps (not even modus operandi, i didn't feel it represented photek's best work). most of the time i don't think dance music works particularly well in the long play format, so its difficult to represent yourself at the international 'artist' level.
absolutely in agreement here for the vast majority of stabs at d+b artists lps.
Quote:additionally there was a load of nonsense with majors signing people up and then never putting stuff out, or what did eventually emerge was sub-standard. as for success, i think a lot of artists associated 'pusing the music forward' with starting to play 'real' instruments and going out as a live band - a fundemental mistake imo. this is only my opinion, but i feel they neglected the production side of their work, and lots of good creative artists went awol in the late nineties. i agree with omni trio in thinking that the 'live' aspect of our music is the dancefloor and the relationship between the dj and the dancefloor. no disrespect to anyone who is interested in exploring the live parameters of this sound though
bang on!
nonetheless, i have a lot of time for paradox challenging the trad notions in recent d+b i.e. that it must be a dj set and that it must always have a linear flow. it ain't for everyone, and i can see how it takes a bit of adjusting to appreciate it, but i think somethingt like that can have its place in the scene.. indeed that the scene would be a lot healthier if people were as confident about their music as he is i.e. not afraid to risk losing the goldfish-memory that most old-guard d+bers imagine their new audience must have... by actually breaking it up - or by even stopping the music altogether...
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Naphta - 15th December 2003
UFO_over_easy Wrote:Code, I don't understand what you mean by DJ's having their own sound. They just play other peoples music. Their only purpose that I can see, is to cause havoc on the dancefloor. Their deck skills obviously haven't got any worse, so surely the quality of output from the producers their playing has got to be the only explanation for the fact that they now all "sound the same."
No. The problem in d+b is that small circle of people controlled what was heard for years. As they became more conservatiove and career-oriented, they inevitably INDUSTRIALISED their approach to make it easier and easier to satisfy the lowest-common denominator on any given dancefloor. 2-Step was the first major stylistic result of this trend. Everything else followed in an accelerated process afterwards, and this removal of the rhythmic freedom of yore - followed by d+b's commerial revival around 97 (courtesy of the stripped-down techno sound of Ed Rush / Optical that converted many new kids fom rock and techno who previously couldn't handle the polyrhythms) confirmed this strategy as a necessity in the minds of the leading DJs i.e. "we gotta give the kids what they want / don't throw anything at them that isn't already tried and tested".
New producers had to tailor their sounds to fit into tyhe new linear e-z mixing style cos otherwise the DJs wouldn't support it. Hence e.g. BLIM -check the difference between his first 12"s for Emotif and then his new 'hard-step' sound from 97 ('Glaciers') when (no coincidence here) he also started DJing..... welcome to the world of straight lines!
Neither Hardcore nor Jungle were about straight lines.
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Naphta - 15th December 2003
LXC Wrote:.
SCENE MUSIC IS KILLING MUSIC
Yes and No.
The music would never have become as briliant as it did WITHOUT the scene either, and it was that very sense of a collective - of 'Us Against Them', of 'Something At Stake' that produced many of this music's finest hours.
It's a double-edged sword. Try ditching the 'Scene' (i.e. as in electronica, for want of a better word) and see how much fun you'll have only ever sharing your music in your bedroom.
(Yes, I am playing Bad Cop for the sake of the argument!)
WHAT DOES THE FUTURE REALLY HOLD? - Naphta - 15th December 2003
mad marshal Wrote:dont forget that a lot of those who are hailed as the few remaining innovators are exactly as elitist and separatist as everybody.
you either like pure dancefloor-dnb (which is often considered as the only "true" form of it) or you like atmos-/drumfunk-/liquid-/whatever-dnb, but there seems to be little love for the general variety and mix of all sub- and subsubgenres. after all, this variety was the strength of the music, as AO quite rightly mentioned.
people have become very stubborn and closeminded when it comes to their scene-defining sound and wont accept nothing else.
I like it all mixed up so long as I think it's GOOD! And I'd like a lot more so-called 'dancefloor' if it was even half as good (rhythmically) as hardcore / jungle / techstep / jump-up 95-97. Cliches are great in dance music but not when there's JUST cliches and nothing else.