Pure Data vs. Max/MSP vs. SuperCollider

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I'd like to try a new environment for making music, mainly improv experiments, and these tools seem to be the main contenders. I expect a steep learning curve for all three, so I'd like to try out the most promising one first Wink SuperCollider and pd have the bonus of being free, but paying for Max/MSP wouldn't be the problem if there was a significant advantage.

Can anybody share some first-hand info?
bit off topic, but Max 4 live is coming out in a bit, which combined with some controllers should provide a pretty amazing toolset.

http://www.ableton.com/extend

not sure how expensive it is going to be though..
Havent used supercollider but Max is well worth it over pd. Max 5 really stepped things up in the usability stakes. Also the Max 4 Live thing is gonna be savage! Makin yer own effects and instruments on the fly. Plus with the ableton share feature a huge amount of max 4 Live effects and instruments will be available for deconstruction and rearrangment which is great for learnin. I'd also say have alook at reaktor too tis a deadly beast! Here's tim exile workin his performance patch and controllers, gives you an idea of what can be achieved:

http://www.native-instruments.com/index....imexile_us
from what i remember supercollider is more like a programming language (see also Chuck, CSound), whereas Max and PD are completely visual. theyre pretty much the same thing but Max is probably better.

reaktor can do an awful lot these days and has amazing sounding oscillators and so on (basically like the best NI softsynths).

compared to reaktor Max/PD require more work to make things sound smooth, you have to have a fairly good idea of how things like this work, whereas in reaktor its much easier to just stick together things you are familiar worth. something like making a granular synth that sounds as good as the reaktor one in Max is a hell of a lot of work.

i'd suggest trying the Max demo, its quite generous in what it lets you do and comes with lots of example things to play with.
I've been using Max/MSP for about 9 years now (although I'm seriously out of practice with it at the moment!) and I can honestly say it is a huge amount better than PD. While PD is more or less capable of the same things as Max it doesn't do the MSP side of things anywhere near as well (Max = numbers, maths, MIDI etc... MSP = Audio)

Add Jitter to the equation with Max/MSP (for video processing) and you have an almighty beast at your disposal.

Now it isn't the easiest of programs to learn but then it isn't the hardest either and you really do get out of it what you put into it.

I also used SuperCollider a bit at university and it didn't really click with me to be fair. Max has the visual aspect to it while SuperCollider is entirely text-based and I had no previous experience with any full on coding languages.

It is massively powerful though and possibly even the pick of the bunch if you come from a coding background and can get your head round it.

For me, Max/MSP is the one though Xyxthumbs
Max is definitely a more professional tool regardless of the price tag. there are some key features and software timing issues that affect pd negatively (midi timing isn't as solid as max etc). PD is great as it runs on many platforms for free...(like my ppc for example).

Super Collider is good for it's "live coding" flexes. But it's more for academic curiosities then a streamlined interface for creating performance interfaces.

The main problem with max/msp and even pd is that there are so many ways to create patches and come to certain conclusions. For you Ben it shouldn't really matter because you have a lot of experience with it.

for someone starting out...wanting to "learn" how to engineer software signal paths etc. PD would be what I would recommend to them as it is free and does have a lot of similar modules to max. For someone who just wants to do crazy sounding shit..I would recommend http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=c...&Itemid=35 which is kinda like a more maxish reaktor but way less bloated.

j

0=0
[Image: siggy.jpg]
magdusia Wrote:I just can't take it...omg omg...I just..I just can't...
Don't forget AudioMulch either. All of Four Tet's music is made and performed with it.
Thanks so far everyone Grin

Ben Kei Wrote:While PD is more or less capable of the same things as Max it doesn't do the MSP side of things anywhere near as well (Max = numbers, maths, MIDI etc... MSP = Audio)

What is it that it does much better with audio? And apart from that the main benefit would be a better interface, is that right?

0=0 Wrote:for someone starting out...wanting to "learn" how to engineer software signal paths etc. PD would be what I would recommend to them as it is free and does have a lot of similar modules to max.

Yes, I think I'll try tutorial or two for pd first just to check out if the basic principle is something that clicks with me and then compare this with the Max/MSP trial. Then perhaps look at SuperCollider. I'm a software devoloper, although nothing with audio, so the idea of coding has some appeal. From what I gather it's possible to write for SuperCollider in Eclipse, ideal for making music at work Grin

Reaktor, Audiomulch, Plogue - all look interesting, but from what I read about them not really what I'm after. They'll get a chance if the other three don't do what I want them to.
littleNemo Wrote:From what I gather it's possible to write for SuperCollider in Eclipse, ideal for making music at work Grin

quality... may need to check that out myself
if you're interested in the coding stuff check out Chuck.

being a coder i found max intensely frustrating because you end up having to do things you could easily code in a minute in a really convoluted way to fit how max works
Lephrenic Wrote:Don't forget AudioMulch either. All of Four Tet's music is made and performed with it.
Icon_eek
For real?!
Been meaning to try out sumting like this for while.
Chuck <http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/>
Will do some reading 2nite.
Safe

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