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ITS THE MIXDOWN THREAD!

#26
Hard to explain; some sounds just seemed to have dissapeared, i always hear the beats and bass loud and clear, but that's it :s

but when i put those channels up in cubase, it starts clipping (even when i use limiting etc...)
i guess one of those SAE courses would bring a solution
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#27
nah fuck that, its probley ya eq, if your beats and bass arn't going over -6db on each fader try taking some sub freq's out below say 80 hz on ya bass and you might fit some more sounds in the headroom, also make sure there not to loud comig out of your sampler outs.

Them courses are not substitute for self learning, even buy a book on masting in cubase or somthing, courses are a waste of money unless you need the qualifications for a job, believe

Time is the best teacher and learning from mistakes Wink
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#28
dsp Wrote:nah fuck that, its probley ya eq, if your beats and bass arn't going over -6db on each fader try taking some sub freq's out below say 80 hz on ya bass and you might fit some more sounds in the headroom, also make sure there not to loud comig out of your sampler outs.

Them courses are not substitute for self learning, even buy a book on masting in cubase or somthing, courses are a waste of money unless you need the qualifications for a job, believe

Time is the best teacher and learning from mistakes Wink

yeah, you're probably right, i just started dreaming when i saw that Neve and SSL consoles Icon_eek

i'll try again,and again, and again...
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#29
believe what DSP says tho, get a good book or read up on the net....that ALWAYS works. free information is the best, a book is a close 2nd, but courses that cost you a complete year's salary are like the 1921902902192910921901th option Wink
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#30
M.T.NesZ Wrote:been reading all this stuff (and a lot of other things about mixing) and it still doesn't work for me

i heard a few of my tunes on a 'big' system last night and it was pure horror Icon_sad Baffled

Hahaha I know THAT feeling!!! Nearly put me off ever going back to the studio on more than one occasion!
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#31
Very stereo sounds are the problem more than anything......

Try using more mono sounds and panning them around rather than just going for heavily stereo sounds man.

Eq and compression will do the job - it's just practice practice practice......
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#32
Macc Wrote:Very stereo sounds are the problem more than anything......

Try using more mono sounds and panning them around rather than just going for heavily stereo sounds man.


What sort of sound do you keep in mono,Maccster?
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#33
Naphta Wrote:
Macc Wrote:Very stereo sounds are the problem more than anything......

Try using more mono sounds and panning them around rather than just going for heavily stereo sounds man.


What sort of sound do you keep in mono,Maccster?

bass and drums in mono init, esp for vinyl
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#34
Naphta Wrote:What sort of sound do you keep in mono,Maccster?

Like dsp says, bass and drums always in mono.

As for other sounds, welllll, it depends, more often than not I will use SX's lovely dual panner mode to narrow the stereo image of very wide stereo sounds.

Wide stereo is nice, but when you collapse to mono they lose a lot in many different respects; the freq distrbution changes, the volume (usually) drops, and just as a general rule sound 'ghostly' or 'hollow' as a result of phase cancellation.

The best way to obtain a wide stereo image in a tune is to use mono sounds and pan them around the sound stage. essentially this means no phase cancellation occurs, and when collapsed to mono they won't lose anything, just all pile up in the middle. This even amounts to using mono reverbs on audio files and then panning the reverbs around. You'd be surprised how much better this works (especially on guitars and voices) than panning a mono track and sending to a standard stereo reverb.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, this isn't really what we are talking about - most club systems are in stereo AFAIK- we are on about hearing those sounds in a club.

The simple fact is that very stereo sounds nigh on always sound a lot weaker/lower in volume than mono, when listening on speakers, probably due to the fact the total volume is 'shared' if you will between the speakers. The only ways to solve this are to narrow the stereo width a bit (changing the sound a bit, but balance between width and cancellation is the key), use mono sources wherever possible and pan them, and (the usual method) compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit and compress and eq and limit the tits off them to get as much volume as possible out of them without clipping, but still maintaining stereo width.



And without fucking the sound up Grin

I tend to use a bit of the first, a bit of the second, and plenty of the third Grin


@ MT Nesz - what program are you using to mix, and what is the pan law set to?
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#35
Macc Wrote:@ MT Nesz - what program are you using to mix, and what is the pan law set to?

Cubase SX,
in Project setup: stereo pan law is set to -3db
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#36
Ah, I like a man who knows his pan law Lol

Yeah, that's probably the best setting to have it on, in which case see if you can get any of the thangs I was on about up there into practice......
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#37
Macc Wrote:Ah, I like a man who knows his pan law Lol

Yeah, that's probably the best setting to have it on, in which case see if you can get any of the thangs I was on about up there into practice......

allready trying Smile

thank you so much for the tips

i don't know if this is any good but something i always do is put automation on the volume of some tracks so, when clipping occurs, i can just lower the volume a little bit where necessary Oops
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#38
Excellent thread guys, this sub forum is starting to hot up Cool Smile
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#39
M.T.NesZ Wrote:allready trying Smile

thank you so much for the tips

i don't know if this is any good but something i always do is put automation on the volume of some tracks so, when clipping occurs, i can just lower the volume a little bit where necessary Oops


What a stupid thing to do Roll Grumble
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#40
Hahaha

Shut up ribby you knob - what do you know? Leave him alone!


Anyway;
Quote:i don't know if this is any good but something i always do is put automation on the volume of some tracks so, when clipping occurs, i can just lower the volume a little bit where necessary

Not a bad idea - but if you are using SX and talking about audio clips, you could just snip either side of the loud bit, turn it down, then turn off snap and elongate the middle/loud bit over the other bits, then hit x to crossfade....

Automating channel volumes is a nightmare - what if you decide to drop the volume of that channel by 2 db? You have to drag all the bloody automation points above -infinity down by two dB and blah blah..... Unless you have a plugin with a gain control on.

Anyway, I am getting off the point;


THAT IS WHAT COMPRESSION IS FOR.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#41
ribby dibby dibby Wrote:
M.T.NesZ Wrote:allready trying Smile

thank you so much for the tips

i don't know if this is any good but something i always do is put automation on the volume of some tracks so, when clipping occurs, i can just lower the volume a little bit where necessary Oops


What a stupid thing to do Roll Grumble

i thought so Baffled
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#42
M.T.NesZ Wrote:i thought so Baffled

don't take any notice of ribby
he can't even twiddle with his hooves

Wink
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#43
Whatever Grumble
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#44
Statto Wrote:
M.T.NesZ Wrote:i thought so Baffled

don't take any notice of ribby
he can't even twiddle with his hooves

Wink

i was just typing a similar post but have deleted it, fecker beat me to it,
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#45
By 14 minutes apparently Hahaha
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#46
Macc Wrote:By 14 minutes apparently Hahaha

Oops ok i did not explain that properley, i saw ribbys post then type my reply about hooves then read stattos a while after and to stop embaresment i deleted then put up the post about being beaten to it, maybe i should have edited it instead Oops
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#47
I wouldn't worry about it mate Lol
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#48
macc Wrote:the best thing about computer mixing, at least using a prog like sx, is that cos the internal signal path is 32-bit floating point you can clip the channels to fuck if you want. as in over 300db (or something, i forget) above zero, but the only thing that matters is the 'bit bottleneck' at your da convertors. so even if your master is clipping like a hairdesser on a busy day Teef , you just have to turn the master fader down to stop driving your da convertors and happy days. Wink


not that i ever clip any channel anyway :smugcunt:


the best mix technique on sx or anything like that is to never move the master fader ever until it is time to mix down.

actually, any move of faders inside the daw is better avoided. all faders, eq's pans etc mean that floating point calculations start being made. as macc has said though, due to the high internal bit depth inside most daws these days, its not so much of an issue.

i would even say that the best technique is to try never to move the master fader in fact, even at mixdown, and ensure that the individual channels are left enough headroom.

i involves being disciplined in mixdown, but will yield much better results.

also be aware that with digital meters like those in daws, your signal on a channel may actually still be clipping even though the meters say otherwise, due to the fact that daw level meters are sampling the level at discrete intervals.

read this paper for more info on this subject:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/nielse...vel_co.pdf

also note that using an external analog summing mixer (a passive design will avoid any noise and quality loss due to cheap eq sections on external mixers etc, and also allow you freedom of choice when it comes to using a coloured pre-amp for makeup gain of the summed 2ch mix that you feed back into the daw) will allow you much more headroom in your mixes - that is, using the individual outs of your soundcard and summing them externally.

Xyxthumbs
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#49
m.t.nesz Wrote:i don't know if this is any good but something i always do is put automation on the volume of some tracks so, when clipping occurs, i can just lower the volume a little bit where necessary Oops

actually many of the worlds top engineers are currently of the mindset that they will use daw automation envelopes and curves in preference to compression to control peaks and transients

Xyxthumbs
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#50
scope Wrote:actually, any move of faders inside the daw is better avoided. all faders, eq's pans etc mean that floating point calculations start being made. as macc has said though, due to the high internal bit depth inside most daws these days, its not so much of an issue.

i would even say that the best technique is to try never to move the master fader in fact, even at mixdown, and ensure that the individual channels are left enough headroom.

i involves being disciplined in mixdown, but will yield much better results.

Chin

interesting - the next level up in mixing kung fu......

Applause
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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