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ARRANGEMENTS

Naphta Wrote:I'm gonna have to start a petition to get this one Roll called 'default 4 MACC'.

It's shit humour all the way, you know that by now, surely? If we were sitting in the same room saying all this lark the body language would have helped..... But we're not.

Quote:What are YOU going to do to raise the standard?

I set an example.

Applause I'm thinking 'well that's a bit up yerself, innit?'......

But then I think, well, he is, apparently - so go on Naphta! Nowt wrong with well-founded quiet confidence in my book.

Smile
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Naphta Wrote:BTW Macc -what are YOU going to do to earn the trust of your audience?

I go out there and talk to them, play my little heart out as if every hit will be my last, smile a lot cos I love it (and have no desire to put on some 'serious artist' face), and make mistakes then laugh about them mid-set.

Basically I am open and honest with the audience, and play my nuts off.

People seem to enjoy it.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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I make mistakes too, and I'm far from happy with everything I do... but by setting an example, I mean that I try to set an example of a Dj who sticks to his guns and doesn't change with the whims of fashion in order to fit in.

So..... arrangements? Twisted
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Naphta Wrote:I make mistakes too, and I'm far from happy with everything I do... but by setting an example, I mean that I try to set an example of a Dj who sticks to his guns and doesn't change with the whims of fashion in order to fit in.

Yeah, that's what I was applauding.


Just as a sort of random note, I love it when Equinox plays a tune and he HAS to go round the front of the decks to brock out before going on to continue his set Hahaha That's what I am talking about!

Quote:So..... arrangements? Twisted

Meet you at 6.30 in the Dog and Duck Teef
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Now... Reinforced (unsuprisingly) used to do a great line in freaky arrangements... but again, I do believe - this was something that occurred more in the era of heavy-duty SAMPLING from reggae/hiphop etc. when they were lifting chunks of songs and recontextualizing them. All that Cold Mission/ Underground Software stuff from 94/95 for instance. Or of course, 4 Hero... before the Parallel Universe LP when, if memory serves me correct, they started to blend the samples in more seamlessly in order to present something more traditionally 'musical'.
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Anyone else? Or have we scared them all off? Baffled
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Naphta;

Serious (and friendly!!) question:

Are you convinced that returning to the methods, styles and forms of the jungle so obviously love is the best way to prgress this music?

Or to put it another way;

Are you convinced that going back is the way forward?

Icon_question

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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Reinforced used to do great arrangements post-sampladelic too...check the Arcon 2 track on enforcers 12, Procedure 769 etc.

Would be nice to hear people do the odd track where the re-contextualise obvious and/or large chunks of samples, but its really tricky to do without the cheese factor.

That's why 'going back' is so tricky imo.
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macc Wrote:are you convinced that returning to the methods, styles and forms of the jungle so obviously love is the best way to prgress this music?

hmmmm.... i'm very wary of seeming like a retrophile on this one. i think it's important not to get caught up in nostalgia for days gone by, cos trying to recreate something lock-stick and barrel will never amount to anything more than pastiche - no matter how lovingly done. some of the 'nu -old' tracks i've been working on recently are a bit more like that alright - i know that - so i'm still trying to find my way there... Sad2 (although in my defence as i said, i don't use any old samples bar the breaks...)

.... but as i said, even when the nu skool beat science was peaking (arguably 96 i spose) - and much as i loved it and rinsed it out - i still felt that d+b's transition to a 'serious music only' was really kinda cutting off its nose despite its face. the seperation from jump-up at the time was telling - as people began to become acutely aware of the form, they started categorizing and seperating and boxing off... and limiting options.

put it this way: i haven't heard any beat science or d+b futurism that has beaten say, foul play's remix of omni trio's 'feel good'... with its freaky reversed rhythms, space-divas, doom-bells and stop-start weirdness. happy or dark? who the fuck knows? Icon_razz that's what was so great about it!! it's ambiguity and fragmented structure meant that it could evade being put in one of those boxes - the vibe was truly unique... which is why so much of that music is laden with vibe and will (imo) prove ultimately more timeless than any number of beautifully-produced striaght-up dark beat-laden metalheadz-inspired monsters.

it seemed to me (and especially now in retrospect) that stuff put out from in 93/94 (especially) had the freedom to be comic, evil, dark, light, straight, fractured, atmospheric, dry, serious, self-referential i.e. it drew from a really broad pallette that could both be 'art' and also 'populist'. listen to moving shadow stuff from that time, or sub base, or indeed reinforced. what drum n bass artist has that much freedom and room to maneouvre now?

now, i know i know i know i'm generalising.. and that there are always exceptions ot the rule.... there was plenty of formulaic shit produced during that time too, and beautifully uncategorizable stuff produced since. and i loved just about every shade of the music up to that dreaded year (yup, 97 again!).

but on balance, i'd sooner the vibes of mashed-up sample-driven jungle for the sheer delicious possibility of surprise, for its delerious schizophrenia, and for its freedom to roam wherever it so chose. it's the same quality that i love in dancehall or in hiphop (even some of the commercial stuff) - you can incorporate anything and find a way to make it work...

Quote:or to put it another way;
are you convinced that going back is the way forward?
Icon_question
Smile

i think..... that the 'blueprint' i'm referring to.. is the best hope for the future of this music... so, in a way... Nervous yes!
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Retro-phile!

Teef

Thanks for filling me in.

Personally I reckon the future of dnb (not that I care too much about thinking about it) is in some thingS (yes, plural) no-one has thought of yet......... As silly/obvious as that sounds Grin

For me dnb is only a tempo.... Jungle is/was one aspect of that, as is techdoowotsitbonkerstep or whatever. But the areas people haven't exlpored fully (or at all) are where it is at.



I'll have to send you this thing I'm doing that I started yesterday..... Dunno what you'll make of it. Dunno what I make of it!

Anyway, before you hear that there should be a new CD making its way to Bassbin HQ..... Soon ish.

And if you can get the archive of John Doe's show (up now) check my tune and see what you make of that......
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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macc Wrote:retro-phile!

Teef

Wack
Spank

Quote:personally i reckon the future of dnb (not that i care too much about thinking about it) is in some things (yes, plural) no-one has thought of yet......... as silly/obvious as that sounds :d

you may well be right. i'm all up for new kinds of performance / techniques of production / modes of distribution. but i'm most concerned with the vibe of the music. anything else is details imo.

Quote:for me dnb is only a tempo.... jungle is/was one aspect of that, as is techdoowotsitbonkerstep or whatever. but the areas people haven't exlpored fully (or at all) are where it is at.

maybe. but you have to admit that that same argument has been used by everyone from john b to ram and their heavy metal mates. drum n bass has always been obsessed with finding the 'new way' / 'new style' / 'new sound' - to its detriment in recent years. of course - it's a question of quality... but i'm wary of the 'it'g gota be nu!' argument. cos fuck-all in music is ever new, as you know...!

Quote:i'll have to send you this thing i'm doing that i started yesterday..... dunno what you'll make of it. dunno what i make of it!

anyway, before you hear that there should be a new cd making its way to bassbin hq..... soon ish.

and if you can get the archive of john doe's show (up now) check my tune and see what you make of that......

i can't listen to shit at work, and have no internet connection at home or in the studio. (yes - i am that useless!! Icon_razz ) maybe aim that one to robaggio...? Chin
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Naphta!!

One Squeeze remix (your remix, not the one that came out recently) is a very good example of a tune that is slightly unconventional - it reminds me of Dope Dragon, but not too much, the chords are kind of reinforced/metalheadz, it doesn't really do what you expect. Its has echos of the old without obvious samples.

Same goes for Enter the Shamen.

Seriously!
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i sort of agree with naphta.. i think he is saying that a lot more was dicoverd and experimented with during jungle in the early 90's as apposed to recent years.. we came a lot further in say a 2 year span back then than we have in years recently

going back to go forward , hmm don't know maybe learning from what was being done back then wouyld be more to the point
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naphta Wrote:Wack
Spank

not Roll then?


Quote:you may well be right. i'm all up for new kinds of performance / techniques of production / modes of distribution. but i'm most concerned with the vibe of the music. anything else is details imo.

i want to make stuff with the vibe i like (that boring, 'widescreen' bullshit serial killer vibe) but all live, jammed, on the fly arrangement (see, we are still on topic Teef )......... drum and bass form done with a jazz approach.

i wish Sad2

actually, that there ^^ is my total ambition in this music.....

Quote:maybe. but you have to admit that that same argument has been used by everyone from john b to ram and their heavy metal mates. drum n bass has always been obsessed with finding the 'new way' / 'new style' / 'new sound' - to its detriment in recent years. of course - it's a question of quality... but i'm wary of the 'it'g gota be nu!' argument. cos fuck-all in music is ever new, as you know...!


yeah, i fully agree the whole innovation complex thing is a problem in this music.... that would be a problem for your approach naphta, would it not?

it's kind of why i often think i would much rather make 10 amazing tracks using four instruments than 100 tracksusing 100000 instruments... people can forget about what sounds you are using and just listen to the music.


oh i dunno Baffled Baffled Baffled Baffled

Quote:i can't listen to shit at work, and have no internet connection at home or in the studio. (yes - i am that useless!! Icon_razz ) maybe aim that one to robaggio...? Chin

no worries, you will hear it soon enough. Cool
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Logos Wrote:Naphta!!

One Squeeze remix (your remix, not the one that came out recently) is a very good example of a tune that is slightly unconventional - it reminds me of Dope Dragon, but not too much, the chords are kind of reinforced/metalheadz, it doesn't really do what you expect. Its has echos of the old without obvious samples.

Same goes for Enter the Shamen.

Seriously!

Thanks Logos, that's very encouraging to hear!!! (A shame that so many even in our own camp over here found those tunes 'weird', eh?! Icon_evil )

Hmmmmm............ *thinks* Naphta needs own label.......
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I need to hear these tunes Naphta. Wink

Quote:A shame that so many even in our own camp over here found those tunes 'weird', eh?!

Yeah, it's funny, I thought Dilations would kill Technicality, of ALL places...... But I think it threw most people...... Icon_sad
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Is that the thing with jazz - you can have 4 guys with piano, sax, drums and double bass, repeat that arrangement of personel over 30 years and you have the history of landmark jazz from bop onwards...

Whereas with dnb we often look up our noses at people using trad sounds...but I suppose that's because we don't play the (say) rhodes in the same way, we triger samples...

Is that what you're trying to get at Macc?

By the way, have you ever thought of getting someone with on samples, or maybe someone on an actual rhodes and someone triggering samples to play along with you in your live show, so you can create your kind of widescreen sound on the fly?
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Macc Wrote:I need to hear these tunes Naphta. Wink

Quote:A shame that so many even in our own camp over here found those tunes 'weird', eh?!

Yeah, it's funny, I thought Dilations would kill Technicality, of ALL places...... But I think it threw most people...... Icon_sad

I love to be thrown by music.. you think the beats coming in and oh no its not ( whats going on??..there it is !!) it catches you of guard. Grin

its a shame not everyone likes that kinda thing eh
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Macc Wrote:Yeah, it's funny, I thought Dilations would kill Technicality, of ALL places...... But I think it threw most people...... Icon_sad

I liked it! But I couldn't dance cos of the nasty alcohol Icon_sad
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macc Wrote:i want to make stuff with the vibe i like (that boring, 'widescreen' bullshit serial killer vibe) but all live, jammed, on the fly arrangement (see, we are still on topic Teef )......... drum and bass form done with a jazz approach.

sounds great! doesn't sound like dance music to me though. i mean, seriously.... that's not a value judgement, just an observation....! i do think therefore, that this is an issue you need to deal with i.e. is there another format or mode of presentation that might better suit what you're at?

Quote:yeah, i fully agree the whole innovation complex thing is a problem in this music.... that would be a problem for your approach naphta, would it not?

yes and no. personally i think it can be much harder to work the way i'm suggesting and to pull it off well than to make a track in the 'classic' photek mould or whatever. and no, i ain't kidding!!!

but it is a serious problem for me that soooo many people in d+b (even loads of people whose work i like and respect) don't seem to get where me and my bastard ilk are coming from on this one... so many have been indoctrinated to believe that using samples (as samples) is now 'backwards' or retorospective' or that it was something that was only useful when producers were too ignorant to use their equipment properly, or too poor to afford session musicians etc. etc. fuck that! tell that to hiphop!

Quote:no worries, you will hear it soon enough. Cool

Xyxthumbs
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Logos Wrote:Is that the thing with jazz - you can have 4 guys with piano, sax, drums and double bass, repeat that arrangement of personel over 30 years and you have the history of landmark jazz from bop onwards...

Whereas with dnb we often look up our noses at people using trad sounds...but I suppose that's because we don't play the (say) rhodes in the same way, we triger samples...
Is that what you're trying to get at Macc?

I am not quite understanding you.....


Quote:By the way, have you ever thought of getting someone with on samples, or maybe someone on an actual rhodes and someone triggering samples to play along with you in your live show, so you can create your kind of widescreen sound on the fly?



DAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Of course!!!! You think I want a fucking CD? Hahaha You think I want to spend HOURS and I mean PROPER HOURS making a 45 minute live show when in theory, wiuth the right personnel you could make it up, write it and perform it in that same 45 minutes?

James, you KNOW I don't...........

I just don't know anyone with both a) the skills and b) the vibe I am looking for.

I don't want to run 'The Macc Band', but I see no point in joining a band where I can play the beats I like over (under? Grin ) music I don't.....
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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Just lisning to your Dilations track macc... Applause

love it, needs to be more of that fuck the rules approach
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Macc Wrote:DAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Of course!!!! You think I want a fucking CD? Hahaha You think I want to spend HOURS and I mean PROPER HOURS making a 45 minute live show when in theory, wiuth the right personnel you could make it up, write it and perform it in that same 45 minutes?

James, you KNOW I don't...........

I just don't know anyone with both a) the skills and b) the vibe I am looking for.

I don't want to run 'The Macc Band', but I see no point in joining a band where I can play the beats I like over (under? Grin ) music I don't.....

Oops Oops Smile
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Sorry Logos, you took it exactly the way I hoped you wouldn't........

I meant it more like 'YOU ARE SO FUCKING RIGHT!!!!'......

So it's me who should be Oops Oops Oops Oops
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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markgabba Wrote:Just lisning to your Dilations track macc... Applause

love it, needs to be more of that fuck the rules approach

Thanks a lot man Smile
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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