IS IT JUST ME OR......

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FINALLY!

I have finished reading this very long but extremely interesting thread...

Heheheh... how slow is that gonna make me look?!!!

Anyhow... not sure what moves are being made behind the scenes but is there any word on the Knowledge CD?? Has anyone spoke with the people at Knowledge about it???

Also... I'm not sure a split from D&B is necessary... I'd be more inclind to suggest a banner or a name all the more deviant stuff could be grouped under.

Somebody suggested a kinda of "quality stamp" on all the vinyl releases and flyers for nights associated with the music we're talking about... I think that could be a good idea.

Anyhow, any updates from anyone on implementation of any of the ideas that were discussed?
Drums
Is that the quality stamp Statto?????
Code Wrote:Is that the quality stamp Statto?????

Hahaha

no — it's just that you can't read anything on a new page in this massive thread until there are three posts on it — drums are temporary fillers

Code Wrote:Anyhow, any updates from anyone on implementation of any of the ideas that were discussed?

there are some links in the SUMMARISED thread (sticky)

or you could Search for "Knowledge" — you should be able to identify the relevant threads therein

Drums
I think the 'quality stamp' is an unworkable idea and likely to be the cause of much disagreement and friction.

As for names, I still suggest the use of the word 'Freestyle', cos it sums up what we're all at without defiining itself by how many breaks are in it or whatever, and cos it's nicely ambitious and open-ended.

Freestyle D+B! / Freestyle Jungle!
Naphta Wrote:I think the 'quality stamp' is an unworkable idea and likely to be the cause of much disagreement and friction.

As for names, I still suggest the use of the word 'Freestyle', cos it sums up what we're all at without defiining itself by how many breaks are in it or whatever, and cos it's nicely ambitious and open-ended.

Freestyle D+B! / Freestyle Jungle!

Agreed on the stamp idea. Likely to cause problems, and anyway, for me, it's redolent of bureaucracy, party congresses, rubber stamp parliaments, paper pushers, centralization, authoritarianism, moustaches, etc...things of course with which I'm intimately familiar.

I do like Freestyle, but I'm worried about vague confusions and/or connections that might be perceived by others in relation to certain quarters of the hip hop/rap/electro/breaks world, where the word already has some currency. To say nothing of course of the actual Freestylers.

Also, the former competitive swimmer in me wonders if he's not a bit uncomfortable being reminded of daily workouts and weekend swim meets...ugh...
I think this terminology thing is gonna be hard to nail !

Oh, and Pieter, while you're here: FUCKING MAGICAL ALBUM!!!!!

Alongside Sonar Circles "Radius", the best D&B artist LP since Timeless!!!
Code Wrote:I think this terminology thing is gonna be hard to nail !

Oh, and Pieter, while you're here: FUCKING MAGICAL ALBUM!!!!!

Alongside Sonar Circles "Radius", the best D&B artist LP since Timeless!!!

I'm flattered Code; thank you...thank you very much.

It's humbling hearing that; "Timeless" is to me, the ultimate. THE daddy of all drum and bass albums.

So thank you sir.
you know, this terminology thing just might be unworkable as well..




........i'd take a cue from Miles Davis and just tell 'em to "call it anything" ya know what i mean?????



-let the music come first... change is afoot
pieter Wrote:I do like Freestyle, but I'm worried about vague confusions and/or connections that might be perceived by others in relation to certain quarters of the hip hop/rap/electro/breaks world, where the word already has some currency. To say nothing of course of the actual Freestylers.

Jaysus Pieter, yer such a sports-nerd!!!

Listen - the way I see it, Jungle's vocabulary has always been derived from other source scenes - yard soundsytem culture, hip hop, even rave - (which it then became almost completely separated from for a few formative years)....... so the fact that this term has some currency elsewhere is not unprecedented for d+b.

PLUS - I think that would actually be an advantage - because it would tie in what we think d+b can do with an old skool sensibility and approach to the music... hiphop still shits all over d+b in terms of lineage, so why not seek to emulate some of its better achievments - especially in terms of establishing some cultural mores for our music other than talking like a fake yardie and necking 25 mitsubishis a night...?
Do you know what?

I think "Freestyle D&B" might be as good as your are gonna get... because, I know in my ideal set I like to play old school, some 2 step from the likes of Polar, mad breaks stuff and basically ANYTHING coz you need variety... it's not about crazy breaks ALL of the time either! It's more about being free to play whatever style!

Also, at the night I promote (and I think Bassbin's REFUGE night is similar here), oftentimes you'll have a Dj who likes to play the more well known names like Dillinja, Roni Size, Ram stuff or whatever playing alongside somebody who likes to dig a little deeper. These kinda nights would also work under the "Freestyle" banner...

Here's to "FREESTYLE D&B" !
21 pages of reading so far.
I feel like I'm back at college!!!

Anyway,as regards to the split from mainstrream D&B...

I can see both sides of the coin here,both the pro's & the cons.
My underlying issue with taking that stance is it then becomes so easy for the 'scene' to sidestep us & the artists/dj's/journalists/labels who are taking jungle one step further & pushing the envelope so to speak.
They have an excuse not to get involved by simply claiming that we make isn't D&B/Jungle & if we exist under another banner then this will simply re-affirm & confirm this.
Me personally,I'm up for the fight to get good music infiltrating the mainstream.Bailey's switched,Rider's playing more diverse bits,Flight,Fabio,Storm,Blame will always drop stuff that can be viewed as very risky as regards to the 'hardcore' audience.So why not get more quality stuff to these guys,as well as supporting our own boys?
Listening to Bailey,I know there's more than enough quality product out there to have a sizeable number slip into the mainstream rotation.

Basically,I ain't ready to walk away from this ting yet without knocking some noses out if joint!!!

At the same time,I do appreciate the need for the distribution crisis to be dealt with a.s.a.p since vinyl/srd/nu-urban/etc....simply have no real desire to put anything other than chart-fodder.& I'm glad to see moves are being made to rectify this with distribution independent of this 'only-what-sells' mentality.
Here is where you will find serious issues arising:-

To market the music correctly you need a product name wether it's jungle/hip-hop or hillbilly-red-neck-marry-your-cousin music Smile
& if this new movement is left under the D&B banner you may encounter probs when what ur selling doesn't in anyway resemble the Andy-c/Twisted gimp mask/wobble wobble stuff that they associate with that name.

This was essentially how the title 'Intelligent Jungle' came about & to say the Hierarchy were outraged is an understatement.I too detest that title with a passion but I understand everything needs to come with some sort of labelling or risks being completely overlooked in the grand scheme of things.

I also believe there's a new audience waiting out there for what we are & will be doing.Just look at Warp records to see how you can start at one place & gradually re-shape the parameters & eventually find your core audience has completely transformed & you've created a whole new musical form/movement.

Maybe electronica jungle? who knows but once the phrase has been coined it's easier for new audiences to tune in & get involved.
'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
Word! this is exactly what I was talking about in the 'Wanted... 1 name" thread.

Stacks
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Stacks Wrote:Word! this is exactly what I was talking about in the 'Wanted... 1 name" thread.

Stacks

Which still seems to suggest that we need a 'SOMETHING drum n bass' sort of title, neh?
Yes. I've been in favour of that all along. Breakbeat Drum and Bass sounds allright to me if no one like "Freestyle DnB' (which I think is the best so far), however it may lead to some producers who are less beat-obsessed being alienated. Actually now that I think about it everyone who is involved here could be said to make 'breakbeat drum and bass'... even Pieter. Just because the focus isn't entirely on the breaks (a la Breakage for example) doesn't exclude him from the category does it?

Stacks
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my .02

soundscape dnb
avante dnb
roots dnb
drum'n'space
fusion dnb
progressive dnb

who's working on the manifesto?
Progressive d&b is probably the most sensible I've heard so far.
'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
progressive d&b is good

i know ppl will turn their noses up anyway
My only reservation about 'progressive' as a prefix is it's associations with J Majik style disco n' bass. But like I've said before almost all terms have negative connotations of some sort and I am willing to go with the majority on this one.

Stacks
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Darth Fader Wrote:my .02

roots dnb

This is by far my favourite after Freestyle! I lilke the reggae association, it connects with that old hardcore track 'Roots 'n' Phuture' (in my mind anyway) and it's suggestive of substance without glorifying itself too pompously...
Yeah the reggae vibe is countered by the 'drum and bass' too, so peeps like Chris Inp who don't feel that their music is 'Jungle' won't feel left out. So so far we have "Freestyle drum and bass" "Roots Drum and Bass" and "Progressive Drum and BAss" as contenders.

Stacks
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I think "Freestyle D&B" and "Roots DnB" are the best I've heard so far...

"Progressive" - fine as a description but as a label for the music, no thanks!
roots dnb??? fuck off!!!
progessive dnb Roll

count me the fuck out.
So that's you for "Freestyle" then Blue?
Code Wrote:So that's you for "Freestyle" then Blue?

feck.