Blue Wrote:alternative NOT seperate.......
Code: separate
adj 1: independent; not united or joint; "a problem consisting of
two separate issues"; "they went their separate ways";
"formed a separate church" [ant: joint]
2: individual and distinct; "pegged down each separate branch
to the earth"; "a gift for every single child" [syn: single(a)]
3: standing apart; not attached to or supported by anything; "a
freestanding bell tower"; "a house with a separate garage"
[syn: freestanding]
4: not living together as man and wife; "decided to live
apart"; "maintaining separate households"; "they are
separated" [syn: apart(p), separated]
5: characteristic of or meant for a single person or thing; "an
individual serving"; "separate rooms"; "single occupancy";
"a single bed" [syn: individual, single(a)]
6: separated according to race, sex, class, or religion;
"separate but equal"; "girls and boys in separate classes"
7: have the connection undone; having become separate [syn: disjoined]
alternative
adj 1: allowing a choice; "an alternative plan" [syn: alternate]
2: necessitating a choice between mutually exclusive
possibilities; "`either' and `or' in `either this or that'
[syn: mutually exclusive]
3: pertaining to unconventional choices; "an alternative life
style"
seriously, i think the implications of 'seperate' do a way, way better (more complete?) job of communicating the ideas that have been put forth in this thread than 'alternative', but semantics aside, i think our ideological differences are pretty clear. i don't mean to show what you're doing any disrespect, i'm just pointing out that it's almost the exact opposite of the way i've decided to approach the same situation.
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i dont mean to do anything. It just happens. I strted out in this game to amke music and thats exactly what i do.
whatever has happened has happened.
and we're forced into this alternative position, not by choice but by c'est la vie.
why choose a way?
just do.
just be.
i'll get back to you on this again after the footie...
Blue Wrote:why choose a way?
easy. if the choice is conscious, i know why i felt that way was the best, and if it turns out to be the wrong way to go, i know the logic that determined that choice: i can avoid going the wrong way the next time.
why reduce life to a set of stimulus-response reactions when you can shape your future?
i try not to plan things when it comes to a creative concept-if it's there it comes to the surface and i follow that impulse. like lately, i just haven't been able to spin. it's not there right now but it will be back.
here's a model that i follow-i look at hip hop. i am a head until i die. i know what makes me nod and ja rule isn't it. there are people who operate within a system (def jux, funky ass records, subverse recs, etc) who are hip hop but don't play by the system rules. hip hop is a big universe but it wasn't always that way. the concept of hip hop culture is close to thirty years old. dnb is close to ten years old-not really old enough yet to have an alternative but associated system for more than a few to thrive in. def jux is successful on its terms-same with a label like streetbeats. the fact that this exists as a system of its own is a success, proof that alternative channels can exist. and given time and logical progression, one can see the potential end result.
drum & bass is the system that i choose to create in but i am not limited to it. i want to be associated with it but still be myself, and the only way to create subversion is to be yourself and stay true to what you feel. it's not an equation to rationalize or a system to create. it's existence, it's idea manifested. when your ideas come to fruition they'll lead you in your direction and hopefully blaze a path for others to follow if they choose.
scart-you're incredibly smart and you probably see things in a far more elevated way. it's a difference in approach-maybe yours isn't drum & bass. i don't particularly feel an affinity to being a scenester myself. but to varying degrees of involvement there are people who aren't the bigger nites/labels/artists etc. who are successful.
deep stuff right here
deep i say
scart ridge Wrote:Blue Wrote:why choose a way?
easy. if the choice is conscious, i know why i felt that way was the best, and if it turns out to be the wrong way to go, i know the logic that determined that choice: i can avoid going the wrong way the next time.
why reduce life to a set of stimulus-response reactions when you can shape your future?
a life in the music industry is not an easy thing to plan.
i just like to take things day to day.
Seanie Mack - I hear where you're coming from...!
Scart: enough with the Dawsons Creek already!!!!! 2 Points.
(1) You're here. On this forum. You're on DOA daily. You appreciate music from both environments. Why are you worried? You can't lose!
(2) If I hear ABOUT your music any more, I'm gonna get on the next flight to Canadia and frag yer ass! WHERE IS YOUR MUSIC!!!!????? At this stage, I'm beginning to wonder if your analysis is starting to take the place of product. I mean, fucking hell, I love to talk about music too, but when are you gonna start infecting the 2003kids like you keep saying you intend to? Actions speak louder than words. Lead by example! Show us!
PS BTW Scart, as far as I'm concerned, I make dance music. Maybe a more 'cinematic' version (for want of a better word) than the usual genre filler, but still dance music. That's it.
And all I want is to find the right context for the music I love - i.e. people that can use it and enjoy it too!
Bloody hell, what the fuck have I started?!!!!
Chris Inperspective Wrote:Bloody hell, what the fuck have I started?!!!!
a discussion which is making people think and get emotionaly charged.
it shows there is some passion when talking about ones aproach.
esb Wrote:a discussion which is making people think and get emotionaly charged.
it shows there is some passion when talking about ones aproach.
EZ tiger  ..... I do hope that wasn't a sarcastic answer......Fair enough for the disscussion, but I think people should be realistic also about all this "new scene" thing. My feeling is that scenes "happen" I don't think they can be organised if you see what I mean
chris inperspective Wrote:ez tiger ..... i do hope that wasn't a sarcastic answer
no i don't think it was 
chris inperspective Wrote:fair enough for the disscussion, but i think people should be realistic also about all this "new scene" thing. my feeling is that scenes "happen" i don't think they can be organised if you see what i mean
i disagree â most scenes are organised i think. how big they get is another matter.
(hope i'm not just quibbling over semantics there  )
chris inperspective Wrote:ez tiger ..... i do hope that wasn't a sarcastic answer......fair enough for the disscussion, but i think people should be realistic also about all this "new scene" thing. my feeling is that scenes "happen" i don't think they can be organised if you see what i mean
no no, not sarcastic at all mate :d i was just stating why this thread
has kept going. no negativity at all.
cheers statto
you know i don't post negativity 
(i save that for another forum when i am drunk)
Chris Inperspective Wrote:I think people should be realistic also about all this "new scene" thing. My feeling is that scenes "happen" I don't think they can be organised if you see what I mean
Nonsense! The funny thing is that if we were talking about jazz or post-rock or summat, nobody would bat an eyelid about people making a conscious effort to delineate what their collective efforts are about and what they represent. Yet because some of us still feel enthralled to the Commercial Frankenstein that d+b has become, we feel that we don't have the 'right' to deliberately step up to the plate to mark out new ground for exploration and new territory to operate in...
What I'm actually saying is that we need the courage of our convictions to say: enough is enough - if you won't make room for us, we'll make room for ourselves somewhere else!
Furthermore, even the purest of ideas have to be marketed right in order to proliferate and to attract new blood. And to do that, we need an identity, not some fuzzy notion of "oh yeah we play the OTHER d+b y'know? - not the shit stuff, well er... not the 2-step although some of it is good... er... yeah well, we play stuff with er.. more beats per bar, although some of it er.......... well... er yeah just the BETTER stuff...!"
Cos at the end of the day, who the fuck wants to be attached to an identity that is afraid to declare itself?!?!
Naphta Wrote:oh yeah we play the OTHER d+b y'know? - not the shit stuff, well er... not the 2-step although some of it is good... er... yeah well, we play stuff with er.. more beats per bar, although some of it er.......... well... er yeah just the BETTER stuff...!
Naphta Wrote:Nonsense! The funny thing is that if we were talking about jazz or post-rock or summat, nobody would bat an eyelid about people making a conscious effort to delineate what their collective efforts are about and what they represent. Yet because some of us still feel enthralled to the Commercial Frankenstein that d+b has become, we feel that we don't have the 'right' to deliberately step up to the plate to mark out new ground for exploration and new territory to operate in...
What I'm actually saying is that we need the courage of our convictions to say: enough is enough - if you won't make room for us, we'll make room for ourselves somewhere else!
Furthermore, even the purest of ideas have to be marketed right in order to proliferate and to attract new blood. And to do that, we need an identity, not some fuzzy notion of "oh yeah we play the OTHER d+b y'know? - not the shit stuff, well er... not the 2-step although some of it is good... er... yeah well, we play stuff with er.. more beats per bar, although some of it er.......... well... er yeah just the BETTER stuff...!"
Cos at the end of the day, who the fuck wants to be attached to an identity that is afraid to declare itself?!?!
Hold on hold on hold on!!!!
What do you mean Nonsense mate!!! I see what you're saying Naptha, bruv, but mybe I didn't make myself clear. I agree on declaring our identities MUSICALLY, the marketing issue etc etc.......
But......I think (this is me yeah? so to ME it's NOT nonsense mate  ) that a scene has to make itself. I don't think that collective marketing makes a scene AT ALL, thats MY opinion. I think that we can all sit around bitching and moaning or we can just get on with what we're doing, I've said this SO MANY times before but all these new labels as INDIVIDUALS are making the scene ANYWAY. I'm not adverse to trying it but if every label does what they were doing, released the tunes that they can, when they can and take responsability for the marketing of their own products, then you can't do any more than that....In any case N, what would you call this new identity?
Read what I've said fully please..... 
E-Z guvnor! Don't lose the rag - I like a good argument is all!
But I have read your posts thoroughly and I still disagree! Look at Droppin Science, Cert 18 - plugging away for years doing their own thing but with no-one to champion them and no context in which to hear their music. Thus, as we saw recently, most newbie d+b kids don't mourn their passing at all (if they even noticed), cos these labels didn't represent anything to that audience. Only disgruntled old skoolers like us gave a fuck, but what use was that to Danny Breaks or Paul Arnold? Without the unifying factor, we all face a similar extinction, run down in isolation..
Yet look at Metalheadz (or at their golden years anyway) - clearly a lot of attention went into marketing the music they loved to the media and the masses cos they were canny enuff to realise that trend-makers and taste-makers set the scene, and then others follow simply because they want to be associated with that buzz or vibe (whatever it happens to be).
There ain't gonna be no road to Damascus - no revelations of self-discovery - for the drum n bass audience as it stands now cos the majority have been bred on McDonalds and they like it! They BELIEVE in the drum n bass scene as it is now - that's where their primary allegiance is. So, what are you gonna do, stand around outside the walls and quietly hope that some of 'em realise that there is more sophisticated and challenging music to be appreciated elsewhere...? That's not what will fire their motors, believe me - sceneists need a badge of identity - they need that sense of belonging - but to what? Sooner or later as your thing expands you'll see that not everyone can be incorporated into your cru and thus you'll need a bigger identity - a bigger flag to raise - something broader and more inclusive than just the notion of a few mates getting together to play tunes to each other (although that is, obviously, where it all starts and should still be centred).
Maybe you don't like the ideas of being seen to be representing anything other than your own personal tastes - neither do I - but I do recognise that there comes a point when you have to siphon off some of whatever it is that fuels you and your musical vision in order to make it accessible to people outside your own inner circle!
I'd like to hear more from Blue on this one too...
BTW, I think adopting a name for the attitude to the music (i.e. Jungle Style) would be more productive than adopting a new name for the form. But I do have to say that when people keep telling me that what I make and play "isn't 'drum n bass'", then I'm inclined to say: OK, you can keep 'drum n bass' then....!
Hey man! I wouldn't lose my rag over something like this!! Just don't like being told that what I say is nonsense mate!! I would have to much respect for you to say the same, thatâs all
I hear ALL what you're saying, but you still haven't given me an answer! What do we call it? I can only speak from personal experience but with Inperspective/Technicality I wasn't trying to fit a niche, although I accept there is a niche which OTHER PEOPLE put us in now.... I Just wanted to be involved with the music I love.....As I'm sure was the case with DS and Cert18 when they first started back then. If People like bassbin, they like bassbin. I don't think Bassbin as a label would NEED to be separated in this way to gain more success; you're doing a damn fine job already!!!
As an (ahem) old boy like yourself you'll remember the time when DJ's from differing styles ALL played in the same room etc, I know what you're going to say, that would NEVER happen now, BUT doesn't mean to say it can't happen again......
6 months ago, I would have NEVER thought that tracks from my label would be getting airplay on 1xtra and played at Metalheadz, but I kept the faith and it's progressed. I'm not blinded by commercialism or anything like that, that's why I keep my 9-5, but I remember even Ben SB telling me to keep the faith not so long ago.
I think essentially you are right, if looking from a completely musical point of view, but in terms of promotions/marketing, a separatist attitude will just push the Children of Andy C/BC away even more. Some of these kids, and let's face it they are kids ARE coming around to new styles and I think that number WILL increase.
Maybe I'm just too much of the optimist to see it any other way...
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