OK music freaks.....

special prize for the first person who can put a name to my avatar.

Albert Einstein without a stash?

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Klaus Kinski?

say hello to Klaus?

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stupid me!

györgy ligeti

who the fuck is that?

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who the fuck is that?

Unsane's avatar

but who is he?

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but who is he?

Hungarian/Rumanian composer with a special interest in tone clusters.

You want a tape?

he was also on the soundtrack for 2001 space odysee..

Lux Atterna or something?

I have the record downstairs..too drunk to check..

I think it got sampled by 4 hero in some 1993 darkside tunes..and I think FSOL jacked it too..

j

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he was also on the soundtrack for 2001 space odysee..

lux atterna or something?

lux aeterna

sixteen-part choral mass-cluster music — slow but still very very difficult to sing

my brother was in a choir and had to sing it..I probably have some music scores in storage still..

I live it when those "Classical" guys flex cool things with timbres..

if you like that..there is a piece by Alan Parsons Project album (fuck what was it called) I Robot I..it's very interesting...choral bizness..

not to mention the pad in "Nucleus" was sampled by everyone and their mother..

j

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my brother was in a choir and had to sing it..i probably have some music scores in storage still..

my mum's in a choir — they didn't sing it but they've done stuff like it and she said why it was so difficult (looking at the score)

1) the natural tendency of any individual singer is to resolve the harmony and make a nice sound — it's hard to sing notes that are 1 semitone apart (plus or minus any amount of octaves)

2) in order to make the ongoing wall of sound, ligeti canons everything at semi-quaver intervals (or less), so it's extremely difficult to work out where you have to come in

well done to your brother's choir if they managed to pull it off

it's the mendelson choir..it's huge..

my dad is also a conductor for his church choir..

and my uncle was an opera singer ..

singing is a big thing in my family...

(not for me though)

j

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Hungarian/Rumanian composer with a special interest in tone clusters.

You want a tape?

oooh yes please!!

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first you have to tell me what the other tapes were like

man Ligeti looks so like Klaus Kinski in 'Fitzcarraldo'

have they ever been seen together?

D

2) in order to make the ongoing wall of sound, Ligeti canons everything at semi-quaver intervals (or less), so it's extremely difficult to work out where you have to come in

Wouldn't the difficulty of this completely depend on the tempo of the piece? I mean, a sixteenth note is just not that difficult to come in on, at least if you're practiced. Anyone who makes drum and bass with any proficiency--and maybe even more so techno--will find it utterly normal to introduce a note on say a sixteenth or three sixteenths after a whole note interval. Hell, if you slow it down a bit, working with thirty-seconds isn't at all uncommon.

Now, as for a mass of singers, if you're asking say sixteen singers to cascade the introduction of their notes across sixteen notes in a bar, then yes, en masse, that's got to be difficult, but only as a function of the larger group. Is that how you meant it? If so, then yeah, as a group that would suck.

Since we all have family doing the hard singing thing, my sister is an accomplished Balkan singer who works with various different ensembles (she also plays--alongside open hole flute, tenor and alto sax--this uniquely Bulgarian instrument that's a cross between a recorder, flute, sax and oboe, and is tuned to a very strange scale). Some of the harmonies and scales they use would send us all packing I think!

Then again, I've said I think at least twice somewhere on this board that there's an interesting component of microtonality in a fair bit of drum and bass, albeit it's almost never purposefully employed. My girlfriend--an ex almost violin virtuoso--and her best friend, a masterful cellist/pianist--once had a long and interesting discussion about this; about how contained in drum and bass was this sort of deeply liberal exposition of music theory on the outer fringes of what's considered acceptable within western conventions. Naphta, you'll dig this, as I think it connects to your thesis of sample-based music and the harmonic friction that derives from that. If you ascribe any significance to what I'm saying, then we could argue that not only does drum and bass employ microtonality, but it does so by chance and circumstance, unintentionally, thereby rendering it aleatory music. So, our chosen form is both microtonal and aleatory, thereby making us all about some next level shiznit yo; the stuff that makes stuffy academics cringe (well, except for the really hardcore stuffy post-Schönberg academics, and John Zorn and Butch Morris, who'd probably think it's dope).

I'll stop now...really...

man Ligeti looks so like Klaus Kinski in 'Fitzcarraldo'

have they ever been seen together?

Klaus Kinski=god...err, satan.

Have you seen "Aguirre, Wrath of God?" One of my top ten films...and the soundtrack by Popol Vuh is--mated to the film--otherworldly.

If you ascribe any significance to what I'm saying, then we could argue that not only does drum and bass employ microtonality, but it does so by chance and circumstance, unintentionally, thereby rendering it aleatory music. So, our chosen form is both microtonal and aleatory, thereby making us all about some next level shiznit yo; the stuff that makes stuffy academics cringe (well, except for the really hardcore stuffy post-Schönberg academics, and John Zorn and Butch Morris, who'd probably think it's dope).

does this also apply to those moments in the mix when two melodic tunes are interacting but sound slightly off? i've always been vaguely annoyed by this, but maybe it's bias from being raised as a classical musician ... do other people consider those moments exciting or does no one really care?

man Ligeti looks so like Klaus Kinski in 'Fitzcarraldo'

have they ever been seen together?

D

'my best fiend' is so funny-hooray for gonzo living!

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Wouldn't the difficulty of this completely depend on the tempo of the piece? I mean, a sixteenth note is just not that difficult to come in on, at least if you're practiced. Anyone who makes drum and bass with any proficiency--and maybe even more so techno--will find it utterly normal to introduce a note on say a sixteenth or three sixteenths after a whole note interval. Hell, if you slow it down a bit, working with thirty-seconds isn't at all uncommon.

True. A semiquaver isn't difficult per se. Messaien wrote stuff with lots of demisemi and hemidemisemiquavers, but they're not difficult to play because of the instruction "extrêmement lent" — or rather they wouldn't be difficult if he didn't want big left hand chords played ppp or something.

Now, as for a mass of singers, if you're asking say sixteen singers to cascade the introduction of their notes across sixteen notes in a bar, then yes, en masse, that's got to be difficult, but only as a function of the larger group. Is that how you meant it? If so, then yeah, as a group that would suck.

But yes, this is how I meant it. The intros are all over the place — deliberately so in order to break up any rhythmic element. The main effect is of one massive cluster subtly and continuously changing (though there is a bit more to it than that).

Since we all have family doing the hard singing thing, my sister is an accomplished Balkan singer who works with various different ensembles (she also plays--alongside open hole flute, tenor and alto sax--this uniquely Bulgarian instrument that's a cross between a recorder, flute, sax and oboe, and is tuned to a very strange scale). Some of the harmonies and scales they use would send us all packing I think!

Then again, I've said I think at least twice somewhere on this board that there's an interesting component of microtonality in a fair bit of drum and bass, albeit it's almost never purposefully employed. My girlfriend--an ex almost violin virtuoso--and her best friend, a masterful cellist/pianist--once had a long and interesting discussion about this; about how contained in drum and bass was this sort of deeply liberal exposition of music theory on the outer fringes of what's considered acceptable within western conventions. Naphta, you'll dig this, as I think it connects to your thesis of sample-based music and the harmonic friction that derives from that. If you ascribe any significance to what I'm saying, then we could argue that not only does drum and bass employ microtonality, but it does so by chance and circumstance, unintentionally, thereby rendering it aleatory music. So, our chosen form is both microtonal and aleatory, thereby making us all about some next level shiznit yo; the stuff that makes stuffy academics cringe (well, except for the really hardcore stuffy post-Schönberg academics, and John Zorn and Butch Morris, who'd probably think it's dope).

An interesting subject. Simon Reynolds (or was it Peter Shapiro) said something similar — that the more 'musical', more 'intelligent' dnb was actually less intelligent, merely trying to emulate accepted forms — and that the noise based stuff (e.g. No U-Turn 1995/96) or sampledelics were far more radical (and intelligent).

I don't know that dnb can be hailed as microtonal and aleatory though — since, as you say, it's not purposefully employed. Nice if it was!

PS western microtonics: has anyone heard Charles Ives' Quarter-tone Pieces for Two Pianos? — including weird expositions of God Save the Queen in quarter tone harmonies. Lovely!

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have you seen "aguirre, wrath of god?" one of my top ten films...and the soundtrack by popol vuh is--mated to the film--otherworldly.

though my favourite herzog film is the enigma of kaspar hauser

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does this also apply to those moments in the mix when two melodic tunes are interacting but sound slightly off? i've always been vaguely annoyed by this, but maybe it's bias from being raised as a classical musician ... do other people consider those moments exciting or does no one really care?

sometimes it's annoying — sometimes I don't really care — sometimes I like things to be out of tune

though my favourite Herzog film is The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser

bless you my son... Kaspar Hauser is supreme.......

Bruno oh Bruno!! poor little lamb...