What happened after 1997 and why?
#1

Just harking back to something Naphta said on another thread I was just looking at. Why was it that up until 1997 there was loads of breaks flying around in pretty much every track, even those played and produced by the big players? Since then the 2 step has ruled partly I think because a lot of DJs just don't know how to mix these properly. 98 was such a terrible year for drum and bass compared to previous years it's strange to think it's the same music. Also the crowd now expects all the music to be straight down the line stab based tedium which contrasts quite severely with the some of the more musical style which were (and thankfully are) evolving. this isn't just one of those "oh it was better back in the old days" kind of threads I just don't understand what happened to force this change to bring us to the situation the music is in now, not that that is necessarily bad it's just radically different.
beats are there to be broken http://musicindevon.org/
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#2

i truly dont believe that the crowds just want linear two step, i believe thats its just because thats all that they get to hear. the crowds cant have changed that much in such a short period of time.

but agree with wot happened?
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#3

i almost gave up on d&b in 98-99. k/polar was one of the few that gave me hope as well as partisan
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#4

I don't think that DnB has died since '97. I just believe it is harder to find good DnB now, In the 95 era almost every record you picked up was good (as i am currently finding out).
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#5

I don't think they want 2 step either it's just they give me rather surprised looks when I drop tunes like Accela - Mephisto 2. it's just been instilled in people for such a long time that they expect it. Also there's plenty of people new to the scene who've never heard old 94-95 jungle.
beats are there to be broken http://musicindevon.org/
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#6

All of my sets are turning into almost all old skool now and its kinda weird but i guess its what i am feeling now Baffled
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#7

the confusing thing for me is how the dj's taste has changed so much, they cant all believe its all good so why play all that crap.
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#8

Hayze Wrote:the confusing thing for me is how the dj's taste has changed so much, they cant all believe its all good so why play all that crap.

please see above post, i only play what i like not what the crowd wants to hear Wink
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#9

@ altered - same here mate with a few select new bits thrown in from select producers.

edit - this post is in reply to ur mainly playing oldskool.

ur too damn quick Wink
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#10

This might help..? From spectraz.com...


Quote:Drum 'n' Bass 2002: Rhythm Vs Sales?
by The Upsetter.

Drum 'n' bass 2002: whither next? For disgruntled old-skoolers like me, it was strange if not downright ironic that the appearance of Andy C & Shimon's 'Bodyrock' (which did some damage in the UK Top 40 as well as garnering itself major radio airplay) was hailed as such a leap forward for drum 'n' bass. Converts gushed about its swing-time rhythm, DJs argued over whether you could mix it with regular d 'n' b or not (many seemed to imagine that its changed rhythmic emphasis meant that it wasn't in standard 4/4 time - of course it was), while others suggested that it would start something of a revolution in the music (although with the exception of Bad Company, no-one else seems to have taken up this particular torch as yet…Wink

'Bodyrock' is undoubtedly a successfully concocted package of drum 'n' bass pop, put together by master craftsmen, but is it a rhythmic revolution…? Hardly. Drum 'n' bass, it seems, has a short memory. Once the most rhythmically-inventive popular musical form since jazz, drum 'n' bass has consistently been staging a retreat from the possibilities opened up by Jungle's splicing and dicing of breakbeats since 1997.

Since the advent of the 2 step rhythm and the tech soundscapes pioneered largely by Ed Rush / Nico and Optical, their 'less-is-more' ethos has become set in stone as THE sound of drum 'n' bass. Small wonder that disenchanted breakbeat scientists such as Paradox (a veteran producer of more than 10 years) has taken to denying that he even makes drum 'n' bass any more, as he feels the shackles of the tightly controlled scene fetter his desire to create new and challenging rhythms.

Why did this happen? Most of the leading producers and DJs have refused to be drawn on the question in interviews, eschewing any questions that even hint of criticism of their scene. Meanwhile, young House / Techno / Rock converts to the stock Andy C / Bad Company sound baulk at the suggestion that their scene could possibly be suffering by comparison with its previous incarnations, and refute any allegations that their heroes could be held guilty of diluting the essence of the music in order to appeal to the broadest possible base...

Unfortunately, the evidence is right before their eyes. Look at the last appearance by Shy FX in the UK Top 40 (with the seminal Ragga-jungle anthem of '94, 'Original Nuttah') and compare and contrast it with his current hit ('Shake Ur Body'). While his first smash deployed an explosive battery of cut-up Amen breakbeats under the hi-octane toasting, 'Shake Ur Body' relies on a constant, unchanging 2 step rhythm (lifted from Dillinja) to carry the r'n'b-style vocals. Indeed, with some young d 'n' b fans recently heard to remark that they had come across a 'new' type of drum 'n' bass that used 'breakbeats' (as looped by the Renegade Hardware crew in their current rave revival trend), it often seems as if the awesome experiments of the '92 - '94 golden era had never happened at all...

Of course there is little point in begrudging mainstream commercial success to those who deliberately choose to target it. And indeed Shy's past successes are proof of the music's flirtation with the over-ground since Day One (check early breakbeat-hardcore chart crossovers by SL2 and The Prodigy for further evidence). Nonetheless, the current commercial successes of drum 'n' bass have ensured that any deviation form the winning formula of e-z 2 step pop is likely to be viewed by the scene as a threat to the supposed "renaissance" that drum 'n' bass is now experiencing (copyright Mixmag). D 'n' b producers, and the A-list DJs whom they serve, have refined the music into a single easily-identifiable form down through the years. A form which, with a little further dilution, facilitates massive crossover successes just as easily as the once-reviled Trance genre succeeded in achieving (e.g. Kosheen).

Other factors in the dumbing down of Junglistic rhythms deserve consideration. The cut-up breakbeats of Jungle made serious demands of a DJ's skills - skills that all too few possessed - while the changing rhythmic emphases seemed too open-ended - too endlessly challenging and ever-morphing to allow those who had committed themselves to a lifetime career in the industry to settle back in comfort and roll out the industry standard, as so many of their 4-2-the-floor house and techno compatriots were able to.

Drum 'n' bass evolved at a bewildering pace in the mid '90s - clearly too fast even for many of the people involved in making and playing it. However, while its primary strengths (rhythmic invention and the range of moods / atmospheres attainable through sampling from other music) have since largely been purged from the scene, a kickback against the rhythmic fascism of the last 5 years has finally begun to take shape. Labels like Streetbeats, Inperspective, Cadence are bucking the trends to push their music regardless of which camp it appeals to, while long-serving heads like Danny Breaks, Paradox and Polar are beginning to find common ground.

Whether these initiatives have any larger impact remains to be seen. Attempts by Digital, Total Science and Alpha Omega (all prime exponents of the Rave Revival sound that has dominated the music for the last 2 years) to drop anything other than their patented Amen-smashers are now generally ignored by the circuit DJs, while Cert 18's TeeBee - a vocal critic of the stagnancy of the UK drum 'n' bass scene 2 years ago - has since fallen in line with the rules of the game. Meanwhile, former drum 'n' bass visionaries like Photek and Roni Size have moved on to different pastures, and all the while, the explosion of creativity that is underground UK garage continues to suck up the talent that cannot find a voice or an outlet in the tightly-controlled drum 'n' bass fraternity.

Although the future seems less certain than it has done for some years, there can be no doubt that, broadly speaking, the music's creativity has peaked, with most of the innovations now taking place on a strictly technical level. Nonetheless, this mutant form of music has surprised on many occasions before, and thus always holds the potential to do so again. But if it does, one thing at least seems certain (and perhaps even more so in the wake of d 'n' b's recent chart successes) - the change is going to have to come from outside the UK, where the same rules do not necessarily have to apply...

The Upsetter

BURNBABYLON!BURN! upsetterthe@hotmail.com
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#11

I blame Shadow Boxing and Piper?!?

Never saw the fuss...

...still don't!

Is it the DJ's that want easier sets to mix, or producers that don't want to spend a month on making an unbelievable drum track?!?

I know these days most tracks get ripped together pretty quickly and step beats allow you to do this...

...plus with the speed of D&B 2day, a lot of the finese desplayed in the older tracks would be lost due them being played to fast...

...slow it down, think about it and bring tha beat back!
What is going on, and why you be so nice!
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#12

5-HT aka DJ Woz Wrote:I blame Shadow Boxing and Piper?!?

Never saw the fuss...

...still don't!

Is it the DJ's that want easier sets to mix, or producers that don't want to spend a month on making an unbelievable drum track?!?

I know these days most tracks get ripped together pretty quickly and step beats allow you to do this...

...plus with the speed of D&B 2day, a lot of the finese desplayed in the older tracks would be lost due them being played to fast...

...slow it down, think about it and bring tha beat back!

Sorry i am gonna have to disagree with you on Piper and Shadow Boxing Baffled

I think the whole DJ thing came down to the top names feeling confident enough to play what they liked, this may have been due to the rise in competition in time.

I also think these days Djs are scared to have a set that combines alot of elements of dnb, they may feel that if they play a Paradox or Blue track that they couldn't follow this with a Calibre or Influx track.
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#13

Hayze Wrote:@ altered - same here mate with a few select new bits thrown in from select producers.

edit - this post is in reply to ur mainly playing oldskool.

ur too damn quick Wink

Sorry mate Cool Wink
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#14

5-HT aka DJ Woz Wrote:I blame Shadow Boxing and Piper?!?.

Nah ... the one and trouble were the guilty parties IMO ... at least shadow boxing was dark !!
europhile
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#15

i loved shadow boxing and piper becuase they were new and fresh at the time.... however they did open the flood gates to thousands of shit clones which turned the scene into a stagnant, souless culture for a while...

at least we have arrived on what i hope is the other side :]
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#16

jaded_youth Wrote:
5-HT aka DJ Woz Wrote:I blame Shadow Boxing and Piper?!?.

Nah ... the one and trouble were the guilty parties IMO ... at least shadow boxing was dark !!

Hmmmm Shadow boxing = dark, steppy with reece style b-line

...90% of D&B 2day = dark, steppy with reece style b-line...

...I'm not saying that this song is soley responsible, but A LOT of producers lept on that sound...

...I actually think Shadow Boxing and Piper are cool too, I bought them like everyone else...

...but, they did start a legacy which is still boring me shitless to this day!
Fullmoon
What is going on, and why you be so nice!
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#17

i dont wanna put the blame at the 2steppers, but at the amount of people jumping on the bandwagon, at least jumping on the wrong one.
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#18

What Dnb/jungle tunes did you used to listen to in 94-96?
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#19

noisemonkey Wrote:98 was such a terrible year for drum and bass compared to previous years

I disagree entirely. I have lots and lots of records from 1998. Loads of great, imaginative two-step tunes in 98. It's 1999 – the year of Bad Company – onwards that things went downhill I think.

Kingstatto
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#20

jmcee Wrote:what dnb/jungle tunes did you used to listen to in 94-96?

these for a start...

metalheadz
001 doc scott / rufige kru - drumz vip / riders ghost vip (the origin)
002 peshay - psychosis / represent
003 alex reece - basic principles / fresh jive / i need your love
004 doc scott - far away / it's yours
005 wax doctor - kid caprice / the rise
006 dillinja - the angels fell / ja know ya big / brutal bass
007 j majik - your sound / tranquil
008 photek - conciousness / the rain / into the 90's
009 hidden agenda - is it love / on the roof / the flute tune
010 wax doctor - the spectrum / the step
011 alex reece - pulp fiction / chill pill
012 alex reece - b-boy flavour / i want you
013 j majik - jim cutta / needlepoint majik
014 lemon d - urban style music / this is l.a.
015 doc scott - drumz 95 / blue skies
016 source direct - a made up sound / the cult
017 hidden agenda - pressin' on / get carter
018 j majik - arabian nights / the spell
019 rufige kru - t3 / dark metal
020 hidden agenda - swing time / the wedge
021 digital - niagra / down under
022 source direct - stonekiller / web of sin
023 adam f - metropolis / mother earth
024 ed rush - skylab / density / the raven
025 hidden agenda - dispatch #1 / dispatch #2
026 peshay - predator / on the nile

Xyxthumbs
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#21

esb Wrote:i almost gave up on d&b in 98-99. k/polar was one of the few that gave me hope as well as partisan

exact same story here....although the dates are a bit different...I was totally fed up w/everything until I heard Skydiver.
"Vive le vol - pure, shameless, total. We are not responsible. Steal everything in sight."

- William Burroughs, Les Voleurs/The Adding Machine
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#22

Statto Wrote:
noisemonkey Wrote:98 was such a terrible year for drum and bass compared to previous years

I disagree entirely. I have lots and lots of records from 1998. Loads of great, imaginative two-step tunes in 98. It's 1999 – the year of Bad Company – onwards that things went downhill I think.

Kingstatto

I do agree with you there, I remember at the end of 98 thinking, "Well step is in, but at least there are some tough yet atmospheric sounds!", 99 can only get better...

...then the 'grinding' sound of D&B came out and I was almost going to give the whole game away...

...luckily 2000 saw a turn around with a few of the older artists like Alex Reece, Elements of Noize and others coming correct.
What is going on, and why you be so nice!
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#23

i bought the nine when i came out-i played it once and it still sits on me shelf. and why should i play it when other people will do that for me over and over and over again....it didn't do much for me then, particularly when i knew about some of the future forces shit prior to that which was much better.

i remember alex c from dj bitching in his reviews about 2-step in 97-98. i guess in thinking about it, this isn't a new arguement. piper-good tune. same with shadowboxing & ensuing rmx. the many tunes that followed afetr when an easier way became open? total shite. but even then musically producers were struggling to innovate-this was an innovation then i guess, bring the invisible pattern up front so people could mix it easier-get a different body rock going for the crowd.
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#24

i haven't heard anything resembling decent music by alex reece since he left metalheadz.


i think a lot of this is down to the fact that the big names are getting older and simply don't giva a damn anymore.
they built this up and put in their blood and sweat, they don't feel they are obliged to push anything anywhere anymore. so far i can concur.
the problem is they don't leave in grace, but sit on the buttermountain and expect it to feed them. all the creamkicking to keep the butter coming is made by new kids who feel they have to comply to what the guys ot the top play. those again feel they have to comply to what the kids seem to like dancing to.

theres apparently no one around who sees and will say this, because he would be regarded as treacherous. a lot of a-list dj's i met, went on a rampage about everyone else not liking what they played and doing it for the cash, but keeping their mouths shut, for fear of getting foulegged by their peers.
The big problem is that those who where there back in the day, don’t want to give away their precious highballer lifestyle and thus stay put in their throne leaving through only those ideas that can be easily marketed upon. and then they make sure they play them first and are seen as innovators..

i recall a 1996 mixmag interview with grooverider where he says things like: "no one ever tells me what and how to play" and the one quote i love the most: "the only cheese i like is the one in my fridge".
cue 2003, grooverider makes the ultimate pop-rnb-dnb-kitsch with "what do you do" and he says in an doa-interview concerning the speed of sets: "if you lot dance to it, we play it". this could be pulled out of context very easily and is thus an extremely dangerous thing for grooverider to say.
if i read something like this it appears to me that he really doesn't care anymore what anyone thinks..

any movement or idea stagnates if its missionaries stop caring. And if they stay put and clogg up the ladder even though they’ve lost the desire to keep innovating, it prevents further change by those who could carry the torch into the future. all new blood has to play the game, and thus gets brainwashed.

The upsetter is on point by stating that impulses will have to come from the outside, as the uk is too densely webbed with industry-standard musicmaking. if this were the same new movement as it was at the end of the eighties, something radical, something new and rebellious, we wouldn’t be discussing this. But a movement that has grown to such proportions was bound to suffer from clogged-up channels of innovation sooner or later. Thats what happens when something expands. It gets more complex, harder to control, and thus some kind of dictatorship will have to brand it with its own mark to keep profiting from it. in our case the branding is manifested in easily sellable and cheap rhythms for a genre that is defined largely by the abstraction and concentration of rhythm.

These times will tell where dnb is going to go. Its a sometimes hurting and tiring, but nevertheless very interesting process.
salute the mentally deranged
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#25

yeh... now thats a list




i downloaded a set that was mixed by pressure a while back... had a setlist a lot like the above... fave dnb set of the last seven years easy!!!



...like it so much i had to cut a cd of that set...
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