Loudness Wars/RMS/Sound grumble

[Macc]

I really like the sound of my stuff these days. I'm getting what I believe is a pretty warm fat and heavy sound, not too 'hyped' or 'smiley', not too flat and white noisy, not way overdoing the highs (I'm not a fan of unnatural high end), and still keeping clarity in the mud region etc etc. It's fairly consistent too, even between pretty stylistically varied tunes. I spose you could say I have a sound to my stuff.

That's great, but then people want mastered versions for TEH DUBZ crew and all that.

I generally am happy with (after mastering) an average RMS level of -11dB - which is pretty loud really. I usually reach this level after a degree of compression which I find to be affecting the sound, but in not too negative a fashion. That is to say, I don't like doing that much, but it's acceptable, and doesn't mess with my tune too much.


Checking out other people's stuff, they really fucking spank their tunes. Jeeez, I can't believe how much some of them spank em! Some people are clobbering their shit up to MINUS 9 (!!!) dB average RMS!! That's something like an extra quarter of the power over a 7 minute tune



So I am faced with a dilemma.

I can either keep my sound intact (and I'm pretty happy with my masters' SOUND). This means that my masters will sound quieter than these limit-hungry peeps, and people seem to care more for loud than good these days...

Or I can just get more smashing action on the go, introduce a little clipping maybe... Go more for loudness and compromise my sound somewhat.

I don't want to get sucked into loudness wars.... But this is dnb.

screw loudness!!

Stick with your sound, I find that heavily compressed tracks tire your ears quicker, they're great to begin with but I find very quickly you can feel they are just too hard.
It just means you end up lowering your mp3 player or whatever (I find it particualrly noticible using earphones).
stick with your sound, if people want it louder they can raise the volume themselves.
SOme music just sounds like the guys producing it are trying to make your ears bleed!

[denaris]

Speaking from a DJs point of view here I've never had issues with your tunes on CD Bob. The average volume sounds fine to me and never have any problems getting them to sound good next to a vinyl recording for instance.

I crudely master my tunes to get them as loud as possible as I'm no engineer and that's simply to make them still sound loud when I come to play them out. Forever having problems even with tunes that "look" loud in Soundforge. Again I've never had that problem with one of your tunes Bob.

Take A8V for instance. Requires some inventive EQing because of the intro being pretty quiet and then suddenly the drop and I like to make the bass drop a little later for more impact but the loudness is fine.

[Macc]

Thanks Wilsh That's reassuring

if you conform to all the heavy handed limiting bullshit, i'm flying over to the U.K and lodging a 9 iron in your ass pal.


have a nice day!

[subvert]

yep bob, do what you do man. you know the deal.



ps:

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/view...hp?t=31902

[Macc]

if you conform to all the heavy handed limiting bullshit, i'm flying over to the U.K and lodging a 9 iron in your ass pal.

Fooook the loudness Bob, if it alters your 'sound', then dont go there.

In the words of Donny Brasco.......................'forget about it'

[Macc]

I'm more worried about the 9-iron than fukkin up my sound now

[subvert]

I'm more worried about the 9-iron than fukkin up my sound now

Could be worse, at least its not a driver....

You know what sounds best man, so stick with it.

Also, your style is different than most extremely limited loud crap. It is easier to spin your tunes in with the other tune of the same style (more drummy soulful stuff instead of slamming reeceness). Most drumfunk style tunes aren't extremely loud either, so your tunes go well with them.

Flows well for me. Also, the Gain knob on the mixer will help if need be.

Gain knob on the mixer will help if need be.

bless your heart.

[subvert]

Gain knob on the mixer will help if need be.

bless your heart.

yeh, spot on, but unfortunately (not that I DJ much anymore) you are likely to turn up to a club where the DJ before has been playing the ultra-maximised, super squashed tracks, at full gain.

You aint got nowhere to go

where the DJ before has been playing the ultra-maximised, super squashed tracks, at full gain.

You aint got nowhere to go

precisely......that's the fundamental problem with all this shit.

[Macc]

Innit

Some of my tracks are over compressed, limited, clipped, or distorted... but I just like the sound of it.

I also like the sound of tracks which have their original dynamics intact

whatever floats ya boat

[Macc]

Well when you make your super compressed shit, can you turn the out down so it's got an avg RMS of about -11 then please???!?

where the DJ before has been playing the ultra-maximised, super squashed tracks, at full gain.

You aint got nowhere to go

precisely......that's the fundamental problem with all this shit.

One more rude work around... Boost all EQ knobs up a bit. Not the best way to go, but does boost the overall volume... Works when it needs to.

Although, it would be nice if didn't have to be a workaround.


Another rude workaround would be to play some crappy poprock (i.e. bryan adams, etc.) tune pior to the track. That way, no matter what volume, the crowd would be happy to hear your tune

it's all about the Philips Dynamic Bass Boost. Have you tried rewiring your philips hifi into cubase macc?

[Macc]

fuck offfff

my loudest tracks are about anywhere from -3.5 to -6, without much audible clipping at all, the one thing about them is the only thing that is compressed in the mix is the kick drum (with no bass) or the bass, super subtle 3x 10db-ish reduction optical compression .. but these arent drum and bass tracks, they're more like industrial hardcore with guitar tracks and stuff.. -so everything else in the mix but the bass, which threatens the clipping aspect the most, pops out and boosts the overall level and loudness perception of the track (the smoother the bass is restrained the more this effect on the mix i've observed)..

[Macc]

my loudest tracks are about anywhere from -3.5 to -6

-3.5 to -6 what? decibels? Is that peak or RMS ( )?

my loudest tracks are about anywhere from -3.5 to -6

-3.5 to -6 what? decibels? Is that peak or RMS ( )?

peak. but really, i hardly eq anything just try to get everything to fit naturally instead and the overall loudness can be increased naturally.

i checked a few of mine and they range from -15 to -11 db rms