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Chop School Assignment 1 - The Results

#1
Okay class, have a seat.

Safetyboy! Stop picking your nose and wiping it on cycom Spank

HERE you will find a zip file of everyone's wavs, some 3D frequency analysis courtesy of wavelab, as well as images of everyone's waveforms zoomed out a bit. There's also a text doc that I wrote as I listened, which I will add to a bit here.

Most importantly, there's an 'answer' wav file - that is, the closest you'll get to what I was looking for. More on this in a second.



First off, nice one everyone who sent in the wavs. It's nice little forum this, and things like this help people learn, as well as contribute to the atmosphere, so cheers to all of you Cheers

Second, this wasn't hugely easy. It wasn't meant to be either Grin However, it wasn't as difficult as I thought, or as difficult as you might have thought.

The results show that generally speaking people need to listen a little more carefully to what is wrong with a sample. That is, while some people found the main problem, there was another there that escaped their attnetion. More often, people got close to where the problem was, but not close enough. The closest analogy is demolishing the house next door to the derelict building you're supposed to be knocking down Lol .

It also shows that some people need to use the bypass button. I really cannot emphasise this enough. A number of the entries suggest (I could be wrong of course!) that people have dived in, eq'd this, cut that, boosted the other, and bounced, without referring back to what they had in the first place. I am 99% sure that had they done that, their submissions would have been different.


I politely suggest that you listen to the original, the answer file then all the submisions. Combine that with regular listening of the original, as well as the 'answer file', to 'reset' your ears. Check what the 3D plots are saying in comparison to the sounds. Get to know the differences, read what I have written, listen again etc etc. After a while, put it on random and see if you can tell whose submission is whose.

The 'answer file' is simply the original sample with the two main problem areas (as I see it) boosted with Nyquist EQ. The lower of the two problems is the main problem, and corresponds to what is most likely resonance from the tom tom. When you kick a kick drum, it makes the kit ring - this is audible almost as a constant 'hum' through the original. Tere is also a fairly severe ring in the ride cymbal. When you catch it right with the eq (as in the answer file), it almost ignores the dynamics of the ride, and simply rings almost constantly like an absolute bitch throught the sample.



Finally, remember that the aim of this was ERROR CORRECTION - not to make TEH FATTEZT BREAKZ GHUY. Added to this was the challenge of adding clipping while keepng to this ideal. So the 'perfect result' would be the same as the original sample, but without any of the main problems, minor corrections here or there (mainly the nasal part of the snare), and some inaudible clipping.


So then, the marks;



Cycom - Sounds like someone who's been making a lot of dnb Grin Made it a 'dnb tune eq', super hyped, super phasey, unnatural. Too much clipping, audible shaving of transients. 3.5/10

Dionysus - missed main resonance, concentrated on the kick apparently, no look at the ride cymbal it seems. Nice work on the nose though, clear sounding in the mids though. No clipping (see Reez). 5/10

djfada - Missed the main resonance, missed the nose, took out cymbal resonance a bit though. Sounds more nasal than the original. Fairly heavy clipping, not terrible but audible. 5/10

Laaaa - got the main resonance and added thump, also some of the cymbal resonance, but it sounds eq'd - phasey and heavily notched, like it has a cold. Has added extreme high end, enhancing the noise too. Very very little clipping (2 samples at 7.1secs, so arguably none) 6/10

Lephrenic - very true to the original, very natural, but didn't clip - main resonance very well taken care of, cymbal tamed nicely. Lower mid needs a little more attention but not too bad. Excellent work! No visible clipping, otherwise it would be 9. 8/10

Reez - got the main resonance partly,mnissed the cymbal resnonce but took out too much of the bottom of the snare too, sounds very scooped in the low mids - phasey and eq'd sounding. Extremely minimal clipping if any (only one sample 'clipped', if that is!). 5/10

Safetyboy - missed the main resonance, took care of middle quite well though. Good clipping judgment. 6/10



FWIW I'd give mine 8.5/10 - I think Lephrenic's sounds a little better (slightly warmer, but still controlling the low resonance), but he didn't clip or he would have got 9.


Great stuff peeps. Fire away with comments, abuse, suggestions for part 2 if you want to etc. And remember - you asked for this, so don't get pissed off with me!


Macc
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#2
Ay interesting to here the different ways people went about this Grin

Nice 1 chaps
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#3
thanks a lot for doing this macc.

weird how i actually notice all the nasty phasing really upfront after comparing them with the others, and you pointing out.

i learnt a lot mate, biggup.

gonna take the break to the doctors to sort out that cold.
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#4
my suggestion for future exercises is something that incorporates something EQ related, as I think that's something we can always improve on, but I'm down for whatever Cool
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#5
Something bassline related perhaps...like getting weight out of an 808 sample or something?
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#6
is it possible to download the loop somewhere ? i'd like to do the learnings

edit: ok got it, it's included in the zip Falcon
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#7
this thread needs more PENDULUM!

Teef
'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#8
Icon_yippee learned a good bit about patience and not runnin straight for the chop, messed about for half an hour for about 4 days.. then couldnt hear the differenece in anything any more Smile thanks for the homework macc, looking forward to the next mission
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#9
Remember that the whole point of this is to get rid of the shit in a sample. Then you can go on and treat it without having to worry so much about it fucking up your mix.

Essentially, the whole point of doing this (I do it before I chop anything for dnb, every time) is to 'turn a bad quality sample into a good sample', as it were. The better your prep work is, the better your final result, and the easier to mix your entire tune becomes. The quicker you can spot and eliminate the shit, the quicker you can actually get on with the tune.

IMHO it is a fundamental and essential studio task when working with samples. You can't always just chuck something in the mix and expect it to work by wanging up the eq's - cos you're turning up shit too.
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#10
Drums

Will geek out over the results and get back to you. Had a quick at them last night and the 'MAIN TWO RESONANCES AMPLIFIED SBT.WAV' file was excellent for pinpointing what exactly we were correcting.
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#11
Yeah man - I meant to say that when you listen to a break, if you hum/sing/whistle/hear the pitch - the note - of the problem frequency, then it's a piece if piece to sort it out. You just listen, think 'laaaaaaa Teef ' find it with a boost, and then cut it Smile You can hear when you're a semitone or whatever away, then you know it needs to go up a semitone to get that damn pitch. The tom resonance in SBT is a prime example.
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#12
Macc, how did you become so proficcient in hearing all the little things that are wrong with audio frequency wise, and stuff like hearing too much clipping/phasing? Is it just practicse?

I'm alright at hearing stuff like that low resonant frequency, but I wanna be able to spot problems straight away. Like, I couldn't really hear that high resonant frequency too well, it wasn't sticking out to me like the lower one was.

Icon_cry
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#13
laaaa Wrote:Macc, how did you become so proficcient in hearing all the little things that are wrong with audio frequency wise, and stuff like hearing too much clipping/phasing? Is it just practicse?

I'm alright at hearing stuff like that low resonant frequency, but I wanna be able to spot problems straight away. Like, I couldn't really hear that high resonant frequency too well, it wasn't sticking out to me like the lower one was.

Icon_cry

i think it's got something to do with him always listening to shit on his headphones.

u can hear serious details on some decent cans.
'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#14
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:
laaaa Wrote:Macc, how did you become so proficcient in hearing all the little things that are wrong with audio frequency wise, and stuff like hearing too much clipping/phasing? Is it just practicse?

I'm alright at hearing stuff like that low resonant frequency, but I wanna be able to spot problems straight away. Like, I couldn't really hear that high resonant frequency too well, it wasn't sticking out to me like the lower one was.

Icon_cry

i think it's got something to do with him always listening to shit on his headphones.

u can hear serious details on some decent cans.

Nothing to do with what you're listening on.

Its the ears, and the way they've been trained.

All about experience, theres no subsitute for it...
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#15
scope Wrote:its the ears, and the way they've been trained.

all about experience, theres no subsitute for it...

Yes Yes Yes

practice practice practice.

it's like anything - when you do it a lot you get more efficient. i am crap at numbers, i can't say 'that needs a cut at 850hz', it's always '700-900 or summink'. when i get to go to a mastering session with beau @ heathmans - who sits there mastering audio all day every day - he can pull numbers out the air.

he'll say 'needs a notch at 850 hz', i'll say 'well sweep down until i say stop', he does, and when i say stop it's 850hz. gobsmacking. i asked him about it, and he said the same thing; 'when you do something all day every day you learn all the shortcuts, all the quickest ways to do things, all the numbers'. :d

for me it starts with a gut feeling as it were;

press play
'there's something wrong with this, what is it?'
'sounds all nasal and also woolly'
'must be the nasal bit at 700 - 1k and the woolly region around 130-200hz ish then, have a shufty round there'
then have a fiddle and try and sing the offending 'notes', find it, cut it.

that's basically it.


then boost like a beatch with the best fat eq you have. like the soon to be mine uad neves Hyper
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#16
scope, your room or phones will make a difference in a way, esp if you have a box room with lots of standing waves and resonance's etc, Im having issues with my room atm now i have moved it round, i have learnt to compensate but its not ideal
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#17
dsp Wrote:scope, your room or phones will make a difference in a way, esp if you have a box room with lots of standing waves and resonance's etc, Im having issues with my room atm now i have moved it round, i have learnt to compensate but its not ideal

Hahaha you think i would have gone to so much trouble and expense fixing my room if i didnt know that? Teef Icon_cry

But regardless, put me in any room, let me hear a few passes of reference material, then pop the problem material through the system, and I'll identify the problems pretty quickly...

You'd be hard pushed to find a room amongst people here that is SOOOO bad that even experienced ears cannot detect problems because they are masked...

Im in the same camp as Bob wrt knowing roughly where a problem exists and then being able to hone in on it, wheras people like Beau, or Stuart at Metropolis (due to their experience taught golden ears) can relate problems to specific frequencies...that doesnt come from having a good room, but can only come from years and years of doing what they do, across a vast spectrum of different material.
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#18
scope Wrote:
dsp Wrote:scope, your room or phones will make a difference in a way, esp if you have a box room with lots of standing waves and resonance's etc, Im having issues with my room atm now i have moved it round, i have learnt to compensate but its not ideal

Hahaha you think i would have gone to so much trouble and expense fixing my room if i didnt know that? Teef

But regardless, put me in any room, let me hear a few passes of reference material, then pop the problem material through the system, and I'll identify the problems pretty quickly...

You'd be hard pushed to find a room amongst people here that is SOOOO bad that even experienced ears cannot detect problems because they are masked...

fair enough, but when someone is trying to learn in the same place all the time with bad accoustics its easy to see how they can't spot certain things,

FOr instance a mate of mine had monitors with NO bass below 120hz, he was tunring his bass up so loud he had not headroom for the rest Lol even though it sounded on on his system, put anywhere else it was horrific.
I know the bass example is very common but mid / upper range problems can confuse ill ajusted ears no end Lol

I know you know fully what your doing scope just speaking up for others really , My method of working has taken me 10 years to get certain knowledge and im no expert but i know what i mean if that makes sense, im just not always the best at getting it accross in text.
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#19
scope Wrote:Hahaha you think i would have gone to so much trouble and expense fixing my room if i didnt know that? Teef Icon_cry

btw did you get someone in ? when i get my new house i will be doing a garage or basement conversion but i don't want to pay 20k like my mate did to get his basement setup , or maybe i could hire you Lol my builder will be doing the heavy work but i want to get it right as im gonna be in there at least 8 - 10 years
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#20
Are you going to blow your bomb shelter up before you leave the old house? Teef
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#21
markgabba Wrote:Are you going to blow your bomb shelter up before you leave the old house? Teef

Hahaha nah its added 4k to the value of the house and it only cost 2k to build Smile
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#22
Grin cool
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#23
dsp Wrote:
scope Wrote:Hahaha you think i would have gone to so much trouble and expense fixing my room if i didnt know that? Teef Icon_cry

btw did you get someone in ? when i get my new house i will be doing a garage or basement conversion but i don't want to pay 20k like my mate did to get his basement setup , or maybe i could hire you Lol my builder will be doing the heavy work but i want to get it right as im gonna be in there at least 8 - 10 years

actually i took photos and acoustic measurements and was advised on the optimal setup of acoustic panels by ethan winder at realtraps. theres not many people who know more about the subject than him. i could go a lot further with many more traps, but it gets expensive and ive mainly delat with the big problems now Xyxthumbs

http://www.realtraps.com/
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#24
good stuff here: http://www.realtraps.com/info.htm
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#25
scope Wrote:
dsp Wrote:
scope Wrote:Hahaha you think i would have gone to so much trouble and expense fixing my room if i didnt know that? Teef Icon_cry

btw did you get someone in ? when i get my new house i will be doing a garage or basement conversion but i don't want to pay 20k like my mate did to get his basement setup , or maybe i could hire you Lol my builder will be doing the heavy work but i want to get it right as im gonna be in there at least 8 - 10 years

actually i took photos and acoustic measurements and was advised on the optimal setup of acoustic panels by ethan winder at realtraps. theres not many people who know more about the subject than him. i could go a lot further with many more traps, but it gets expensive and ive mainly delat with the big problems now Xyxthumbs

http://www.realtraps.com/

shafe, Xyxthumbs
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