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Thread Contributor: OVERLOAD"...a fiasco that will destroy physics in England"

#1
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/articles/a...r-aqa.html

This made me quite angry.

I'm not quite sure why our government are intent on dumbing people down, it seems like they want a nation of useless "celebrities", football players, spirit mediums and homeopaths (all of which deserve to die). I finished my GCSEs about 7 years ago (shit, 7 years!) and they taught us a load of crap then, there were questions like "explain why government policy [xxxx] is a good idea" but it looks like it is getting worse as time goes on.
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#2
Oh yes, and make sure you sign this if you are in the UK Smile might be able to at least get Gordon to look at it.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/physicsedu/
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#3
Icon_eek
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#4
overload Wrote:homeopaths


Nono



given, the scientific base is lacking fundamental logics, but i believe not enough is known about psychological effects of placebos and/or holistic approaches to warrant an overal dismission of therapies like homeopathy od traditional chinese medicine

most alternative therapists today will only use their methods in a complementary way and not as a complete substitute to pharmaceutical/surgical medicine.
to be frank, in some cases, i believe pharmaceutical medicine is a bit lost.
bombing every viral outbreak with antibiotics will turn out to be timebomb in the long run.
finding methods that could trigger the body's own defences (which essentially, is what homeopathy is about, once you see throgh the cloud of hazy mysticism it still harbours due to its short existence) should be a way to handle sickness and disease in the future. much in the same way as a virus like h5n1 adapts to the defences of its hosts, the human body's defences could be taught to adapt to new viruses faster and better.


the trouble is, it is quite easy to scientifically pick apart something as vague as homeopathy, hence it reappears in the news every now and then as an example of quackery, with quotes highlighting the hardcore-stuff like high potencies (remedies in such a low concentration, that they equal a single drop of essence in the entire ocean) and such.

if you'd highlight max planck's views on why women shouldn't be scientists (he tried to apply thermodynamics..) you'd believe he was a bit of a dunce too, unworthy of scientific work.

(it's not an elegant argument i know, but you get the point..)

this just shows, that critical thought is one of the most important things that should be taught in schools. too much today is taught as vague "knowledge", when in reality it's concepts that apply under certain conditions. if you have no real knowledge of the factual basics underlying these concepts, you have no chance of examining the conditions and eventually finding your way to a relevant and plausible conclusion (i'm rambling...)

i wonder if it all just boils down to an economic profit from keeping the public uncritical and as you rightly say "dumb".
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#5
From my understanding of homeopathy (somewhere between my grandad, who was a firm believer in alternative therapies, and the Bad Science columns in the grauniad), the arguments seem to be not so much that homeopathy hasn't been proven to be effective, but that practitioners of it haven't been willing to test it on a scientific level. Especially as the justification for much of it working seems so contradictory.

You mention the detail about low concentration. One suggestion I have seen is that when you dilute a solution so far that there is no measurable quantity of the active component, the solution keeps a "memory" of the molecule, and it is this "memory" which gives medical benefits. Surely this would mean that a glass of rainwater contained the "memory" of every possible homeopathic remedy, and would act as some kind of cure-all?

I completely agree that the wests' focus on antibiotics and expensive drug treatments is by no means perfect, and there are plenty of alternative methods (reflexology, acupuncture) which have been shown to have some positive effect. I just can't get behind homeopathy as it seems to be based on a false premise. Am I missing something?
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#6
I agree with Metal Malcolm, if it were true then even the water that runs out of your taps would be able to cure anything.

It does rely on the placebo effect which I do think can help some illnesses and is obviously a good thing, but I have a problem with people being ripped off. They are buying water, and nothing more.

I just had a very quick search and on the first homeopathy website I found (homeopathyworks.com), they charge over $30 for 100ml :/ - I wonder why practitioners of it haven't allowed it to be tested scientifically. Hmmm, let me think!

At least one thing that they claim is true - it is 100% safe!
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#7
Metal Malcolm Wrote:From my understanding of homeopathy (somewhere between my grandad, who was a firm believer in alternative therapies, and the Bad Science columns in the grauniad), the arguments seem to be not so much that homeopathy hasn't been proven to be effective, but that practitioners of it haven't been willing to test it on a scientific level. Especially as the justification for much of it working seems so contradictory.

You mention the detail about low concentration. One suggestion I have seen is that when you dilute a solution so far that there is no measurable quantity of the active component, the solution keeps a "memory" of the molecule, and it is this "memory" which gives medical benefits. Surely this would mean that a glass of rainwater contained the "memory" of every possible homeopathic remedy, and would act as some kind of cure-all?

I completely agree that the wests' focus on antibiotics and expensive drug treatments is by no means perfect, and there are plenty of alternative methods (reflexology, acupuncture) which have been shown to have some positive effect. I just can't get behind homeopathy as it seems to be based on a false premise. Am I missing something?



OVERLOAD Wrote:I agree with Metal Malcolm, if it were true then even the water that runs out of your taps would be able to cure anything.

well, neither rain nor tap water have been treated like a homeopathic remedy. its basically alcohol and/or distilled water, which is carefully shaken and mixed with a certain essence. the result is diluted (one drop into a new flask of alcohol/water) and carefully mixed again. after a few runs of this process, the remaining amount of original essence is minimal, but the potion was still treated a lot differently than tap or rain water.

exactly this "memory"-talk is the bit that i can't get to grips with either. plus
the fact that some hardcore-homeopaths ( Hahaha ) look at their trade as a cure for all things which under no circumstances should be measured or even mixed with scientific values. i just saw a programm on a german homeopath fanatically reinforcing this stance. from what i witnessed in this country, i thought the two sides were actually starting to cooperate, but i might have been mislead by noteable exceptions..


OVERLOAD Wrote:It does rely on the placebo effect which I do think can help some illnesses and is obviously a good thing, but I have a problem with people being ripped off. They are buying water, and nothing more.


I just had a very quick search and on the first homeopathy website I found (homeopathyworks.com), they charge over $30 for 100ml :/ - I wonder why practitioners of it haven't allowed it to be tested scientifically. Hmmm, let me think!

true as well, but what is modern pharmacy doing? the often ridiculous prices of medical supplies are explained with funds being used for research etc. but its all kept in the dark, so you can't really see where the money goes. the people that need remedies againts HIV, Malaria the most, are those that can't afford them and the corporations have only just started to do something about that due to global pressure.
it's as much a rip off as charging money for the bath water of some white robed, self-proclaimed medium that claims to talk to god.

OVERLOAD Wrote:At least one thing that they claim is true - it is 100% safe!

that's probaly the reason why many people who can't get to grips with the increasing speed and technology of our time turn to alternative remedies. they're simply more scared of a blue pill from some anonymous mega-firm, than from ground up plants and herbs. especially after watching the matrix Teef


btw, sorry for highjacking your post somewhat..
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