software/laptop/soundcard advice for a beginner

Can I have some please? As in what should I go for?

I realise this has probably been discussed thousands of times before on here, but I couldn't find any threads discussing the basics. Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

[Macc]

Hello there sir

If you give us a little more info, we can sort you right out

What sort/s of music will you be making?

Will you be recording anything - vinyl samples, singing, or guitar, or whatever?

And the big one:

What's your budget?

Thank you kindly.

I'll be making techno, dnb (hopefully no techno dnb crossovers), electronica type stuff.

Don't think I will be recording anything. I like the idea of sampling vinyl, but let'd say no for now.

Budget is less than a grand

[Macc]

English grand?

logic 8 is great value but its mac only and i don't know if getting one of the cheap mac laptops would be so good for audio. you could easily make complete tunes just using logic 8 though

i'd suggest getting a decent package like logic 8 or cubase 4 and then adding a few choice quality plugins/dsp things as you go along

can you get a mac and logic 8 for under a grand £ ?

A mac that'll run logic 8 and BFG, Reaktor etc... properly?

[Macc]

And a soundcard...?

I'll do a proper reply tomorrow!

yeah i dunno if the cheaper mac laptops are comparable to what you could get in a standard pc laptop for that much... i think they are but i've never used one first hand.

would be tricky to get a cubase 4 setup for under a grand too if you want some decent softsynths and a sampler surely? (if you pay for the software )

so where do you make the trade off then??

do you go for power over branding??

I know a lot of musos get offended if you mention dell laptops, but if you're on a budget, they're damn near impossible to beat.

look at these ones:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/produc...l=en&s=bsd

[Macc]

Aye, for a grand (£):

Dell Vostro 1500 (the one on the right of that page) + Emu 0404 USB + Cubase Studio 4, plus shortcircuit (free) and you have everything you need to get started and a bit of change

That's not a bad setup at all!

i used to do all my music using a Dell i got for free.. seriously, just try to keep it simple, i.e. just go with what works first and foremost, the only part is finding out what works for you because of all the choices available nowadays.

if you can download the demo soft and you want the full versh because you just made something you want to save, that's the one to go with.

Thanks for the advice so far folks, please continue the debate

Specifically I was wondering:

Is the choice between software (like logic, cubase, ableton) just one of personal choice and how should I decide?

What spec should the laptop be to run everything well, and what soundcard considerations do I need to make?

[denaris]

For £699 you do indeed buy a very capable Macbook. I'm not just saying that because I'm a Mac elitest but it is pretty powerful and well up to running Logic 8, Reaktor etc.

The current breed of Macbooks are every bit as powerful as my 18 month old Intel iMac and that runs everything like that rather nicely. I've only started exploring the higher end of the CPU scale since running quite a few instances of Voxengo's Varisaturator all over my mixes or PSP Vintage Warmer and MasterQ, but that's while running Reason rewired into Ableton at the same time so both of those will be taking their fair share of CPU time as well.

There's no doubt you could squeeze a little bit more power from a PC laptop for the same money but a Macbook is by no means a poor contender anymore.

[Macc]

Is the choice between software (like logic, cubase, ableton) just one of personal choice and how should I decide?

If you've never used anything before, then get one thing and learn it - it's as simple as that really. In addition, it's difficult for us to recommend when even you don't know what you want!

The general stereotypes are as follows;

Cubase - bit tricky to learn at first but extremely powerful

Logic - very similar but Mac only

Ableton - good fun and easy to get things going, if limited in certain ways with regard to mixing (great routing though)

Reason - good fun, easy to get things running, sounds a bit

I suggest just picking one, diving in, and learning it inside out. Really, if you make good tunes, you can make good tunes with any of them (if you get me).

What spec should the laptop be to run everything well, and what soundcard considerations do I need to make?

Soundcard considerations are why I asked about your recording intentions.

As you won't be recording a lot you need something with decent Analogue-Digital/D-A convertors (read: sound quality) that doesn't have 48 inputs/outputs and is cheap. The EMu 0404 USB is a decent choice, but there are several others as well - it's a pretty crowded market at that price point.

Its probably worth demoing the DAW that you are going to use before jumping in there.

A lot of the audio interfaces come with the LE versions of popular DAWs which enable you to upgrade cheaper


With the one that macc suggested you get a load to try out.


Cakewalk SONAR LE
Steinberg Cubase LE
Ableton Live Lite 4
Steinberg WaveLab Lite
Celemony Melodyne essential
K Multimedia Amplitube LE

[denaris]

If I was starting out again, with no samples etc (29gb of Refills later and I'm a bit stuck with Reason save for extracting all the samples) I'd definately go down the Logic route.

If not Logic, I'd go with Ableton Live. I like the way that program works a lot and seems to suit my lazy way of working just right.

Like Macc says, choose one and delve into it. I wouldn't go down the stop gap route of choosing an easier one with the aim of moving to Logic or Cubase. If you see yourself on those 2 packages eventually, start with them even if the learning curve is quite steep.

I'd say if you want to get really deep into stuff then Live doesn't quite cut it.

It's be Logic on Mac or Cubase on PC for me.
OR Logic 5.5 on pc, although I'm starting to notice it's limitations with it when using newer plugins.

the 1/32 beat resolution in Live is a bit silly, that on it's own put's me off using it as my main DAW.

[Macc]

I wouldn't go down the stop gap route of choosing an easier one with the aim of moving to Logic or Cubase. If you see yourself on those 2 packages eventually, start with them even if the learning curve is quite steep.

Yeah, nicely put - that's exactly what I was trying to say

1/16384th beat resolution actually

have the fixed it then?
or am I being silly?

I can only get the grid to 1/32nd on Live 6.

hi mate and welcome to this damned lovely place, seriously.

you'll prob come under-fire from both the mac and pc 'side' of things when it comes to buying a laptop - try both if you can and see what feels most comfortable (operating system wise). i've recently gone mac after using pc's for years, but most of my reasons were down to stability and all my friends having macs/running logic so it became more and more difficult to share files easily, etc.

i'm not saying pc's aren't stable, it was prob my own lack of 'housekeeping' tbh - and some bits of my pc i really miss, but the mac is cool, and has enough grunt to keep me going for a few more years. i was at the point of having to upgrade the pc anyway.

software - this bit can be the part that decides which laptop/os you opt for anyway - as i mentioned, i missed using logic and going mac meant i can now use the latest version instead of using an old and buggy pc one. that said, i got into using cubase sx3 for a year or 2 and it's pretty awesome. macc and a good few others on here use it which speaks for itself and i really miss its very powerful handling of audio, for example - much more powerful than logic for editing audio etc, but then i always felt more natural when actually 'writing' in logic, if you get me?

you can always get demos of these sequencers, like try cubase out on your net pc for now, just to see how it feels in use. other options are aplenty, like ableton live, sonar, reason, tracker programs, modular progs like buzz and audiomulch etc etc. this all gives you plenty of choice (prob too much ) between quite expensive top end progs and completely free packages, too.

basically - logic and cubase are deep and quite intensive to begin with, but well worth persevering with - ableton is more simplified and will let you stretch audio very easily (so you can make a sampled drum beat line up in time, regardless of tempo) and also makes other obvious things very simple, so you can get stuff moving quickly. that said, i always feel frustrated by the lack of midi editing options that ableton offers, but that prob comes from being spoilt by logic/cubase for too long. people like cycom and martsman use tracker programs to make their amazing stuff, but i've not used one of those since the amiga days, so i can't speak for that side of things, sorry!

soundcards seem to be falling out of peoples pockets these days, there's so many of the bloody things! like with your whole question, what you opt for/spend is dependant on what you want to get back out of it, and equally as important, what you want to spend getting there.....the quality you get for not too much cash these days is absurd compared to only a few years ago, so i'd prob start off buying something from a reputable make, but i wouldn't get drawn into the 'i must spend £350 or it's gonna be shite', cos that's utter bollocks. hell, you could even use the internal soundcard on a macbook if you wanted to, until you got some more cash to buy a usb/firewire jobby. not ideal, but more than useable, my mate's done live gigs on his after his posh rackmount tascam fucked up on him, and it went fine

for making dnb/jungle without recording a live band at the same time, i'd prob just get something with a couple of inputs, prob a few more outputs, portable and bus powered, and with a headphone out so you can write in bed if the mood takes you, without getting grief off the missus

so yeah, decide what your budget is - that might get you a lot more recommendations for specific gear on here mate - demo a good few sequencers but give each a bit of time, as opposed to an hour before giving up. follow the tutorials! search the net if you're stuck on something, or the bundled manuals! get some samples ready beforehand so you can try out that side of things straight away, as it's an important area. most sequencers come stuffed with effects and virtual instruments anyway, so you shouldn't have to worry about that. remember that you can demo the software on any (pc) computer without a posh soundcard by getting a free program called 'asio 4 all', which will let you run high end audio shit on a built in (shit) pc soundchip. the mac soundcard will run the better audio sequencers by default anyway. then when you decide you are into it and are gonna kick breakage's arse with your tracks, you can start looking into soundcards etc

so;

pc v mac - both do the same things, differently. that's it. pcs are more budget friendly, but less component friendly, due to 3rd party/non matched stuff they can be configured with, or that you might add yourself (clashes, etc). there are a lot more free/mad programs/fx around on windows though, but ironically i'm getting more done now as i'm slightly more limited. plus you can always run windows on a mac, using parallels or bootcamp. worth looking into. but, both do the same job at the end of the day.

soundcards - don't spend a fortune (for now)

software - try, try, try. free demos are rife, get em all and try making a track on each one. if it feels like you've put an old pair of slippers on after an hour or two, you're prob getting warm. don't be disheartened if it all sounds shit, you'll get better and better at it with time anyway, and i'm sure even the best producers write piles of complete turd, inbetween the killers. just persist and you'll get a feeling for which one is the most natural for you.

phew. hope this helps mate, and good luck

much love, hovver

oh fuck, we forgot to mention monitors........

ps tried to send that bastard of a message last night before going out, only realised this morning it didn't happen. so apologies for not realising you'd mentioned your budget mate

good stuff chaps, and the most in depth response goes to...hovver

i'm learning, i'm learning :d

i have used reason before, but got put off by the sound quality, as mentioned by someone on this thread.

also, think i might be able to get a cheap mac via my mate's mum, as she's a teacher

Logic it is, then. More plug ins than you can shake a stick at. Just remember to Read Teh Farqing Manual.

I'd suggest starting with just the mac and logic. A midi keyboard shouldn't hurt the budget much either. But it may be good to spend some time learning all that and then figure out what else you need as you go.

Case in point: I bought some great monitors (PMC TB2) last year but as it's turned out, they don't get that much use. Most of the time I make music at night so it's cans for me. I certainly don't regret it, as the PMCs will serve me for years to come, but if I had that money now I might choose a different way to spend it (better soundcard, synth or a duende maybe).

Anyhoo... always make the best of what you got before you go buying this that and the other thing.