Oldskool Grandad Seeks Some "Nuskool" break chopping advice

Ez people, I come from an oldskool hardware emu e4 and atari st background and being the oldskool grandad I am I was too stubborn to learn the single sylable method of chopping breaks in recycle. I have used recycle to speed up my breaks and export as single wav and import into Kontakt 2/Intakt on Logic Express 7(Pauper Doley Edition). Add the break and chop to the bass, snares ect...

Anyway I would really appreciate someone showing me how to/or explain how to export single hit wavs into kontakt 2 and get my head around placing these single hit wavs into the key editor. As far as i have got I exported the wavs and the midi file. Imported midi file into logic and imported the hits to a key group in kontakt 2. Now this is where Im a little lost. I open the midi file and see my hits going through the keys, Obviously its not quantised. So i started quantising the bass and snare drums and start losing the plot. (edit: oh yeah i do the slices manually on zero crossing points in recycle)

Can anyone help me get my head round sorting the quantizing. I understand that breaks arnt gonna be tight as live samples. Is it just a case of trial and error moving the little hats and shuffles around?

Im far from a production "noob" but never got my head round the recycle ting - If anyone would be kind enough to help me it would be most appreciated

Niceone - Geoff

i think it helps a lot if you have the break your chopping as tight to a bar as possiblle

then usually once your into the sequencer, hard quantizing your kicks and snares etc, then having little rolls in there that still retain the original groove

works for me anyway

i think it helps a lot if you have the break your chopping as tight to a bar as possible

You mean import a 1 bar (4 beats) loop in recycle?

[Macc]

Oioi Geoff

Sorry not replying to your PM - been frantic here - but it was much appreciated Got a few minutes now so I'll try to spell it out concisely as I recall it from my kontakt days...

First, a break can be as tight as you want - it's all about how far you want to go. Actually if you want it bang on feckin super tight, it's easier than 'tight but with feel', but that comes later

Ok so;

In recycle;

1) Set all slice points, one region per hit. If the drummer hit it, chop it. Make sure there's no little click at the end of each hit. Recycle ALWAYS puts the slice points a little too far to the right, giving you a teeny click at the end from the very start of the next hit. It's a cunt.

2) Set beats/bars etc. COUNT IT RIGHT.

3) Set Stretch if you want it (never more than 30% IMHO, but it depends). Best thing about Recycle IMHO, it's just an automatic fw/rv loop, and used in the right way, in the right places, it can do really well... Slow down the preview tempo a LOT and listen, set it to be natural (if you want to use it at all). Too much and it is ugly.

4) Export as individual wavs, and get the midi. Fuck rex files, fuck em right in the ear.

5) Save

6) Open sequencer, import midi file.

7) Open kontakt, open key editor thing, and drag all the little hit samples (from windows) into the keymap jobby. BEFORE you drop them, move the mouse forward/back to get each of the slices on an individual key, and make the first /lowest one sit on C1 (where recycle starts its midi file).

Press play. You'll hear the break play back at whatever tempo you're at.

Now we come to the editing of it all. This is an extremely large topic, so I'll see if I can dig out some of the long arse threads we have had on this in the past. I was more into it then and wrote fuckloads as I recall. These days I don't even think about it, I don't know what I do to be honest!

AGHHLL BE BACCKGH

[Macc]

i think it helps a lot if you have the break your chopping as tight to a bar as possiblle

This is true, but it can cause problems - drummers are human, and even within 2 bars the tempo can vary and fuck that right up. How many times have you seen a break where it starts bang on, and you know you cut it bang on, but the first kick of the middle bar is ahead/behind of where it 'should' be? Gently smoothing out that to sound natural but correct is the hardest thign in the game IMHO... see below.

then usually once your into the sequencer, hard quantizing your kicks and snares etc, then having little rolls in there that still retain the original groove

This works, but if you want it PROPER (sorry... but I am a snob) you have to be extremely careful how you approach this. Often when you hear people doing this it sounds like quantised kicks/snares and bits of rolls ie shit. Truly 'tight with feel' is a different thing, but it does take time and effort...

Cubase's 'sizing applies timestretch' used on correctly cut bits of midi (yes, timestretching midi) can preserve the relative timings between more significant hits, but you have to be extremely patient, careful, and have a lot of time on your hands! It means stretching the midi even within an 8th note, thereby keeping the precise feel of that 16th snare, which in turn is correct, relatively speaking, with a corrected snare etc etc. You then have to be very careful in how you move things around, because of context - that swung 16th will sound very different (wrong, 75% of the time) if you move back half a bar or something like that.

I think (it was a long time ago) that that tune Be Like Water I did has that licked. It's tight but it has feel, flows like a drummer without sounding edited etc etc. Still pleased with that, especially the main beat (as opposed to the edits)

make sure there's no little click at the end of each hit. recycle always puts the slice points a little too far to the right, giving you a teeny click at the end from the very start of the next hit. it's a cunt.

ok will look into that more

set stretch if you want it

never used stretch, ok

fuck rex files, fuck em right in the ear.

i do fuck rex's, i think i seen you hatin' on rex's a plenty lol

open kontakt, open key editor thing, and drag all the little hit samples (from windows) into the keymap jobby. before you drop them, move the mouse forward/back to get each of the slices on an individual key, and make the first /lowest one sit on c1 (where recycle starts its midi file).

ok i do this bit fine

now we come to the editing of it all. this is an extremely large topic,

yeah this i think is my main prob

long time no speak macc, appreciate your time man

couldnt have put it better myself (thats because i couldnt have put it at all )

little off topic q because i really cant be bothered startng another thread for somethng so small

but how the hell do you select all the slices without holding ctrl and clicking each individual slice in sc1?

[Macc]

Click top one, hold shift, click last one.

I think so anyway.

A link Mr Geoff Will try to find more but I am off home now

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/view...se&t=28933

Click top one, hold shift, click last one.

yeh that works

[Macc]

Like every other windows thing

IT at my school stood for Idiots Talking