'Ardcore Continuum video

I just wonder how much he was looking for a continuity before he discovered one.

I'd guess that he wasn't looking for one
rather that he just spotted a possible continuity and developed it as a hypothesis
which is interesting enough for an article or two

but making a massive thing out of it, as has since happened, is just...

Well, Id argue that its the critics who seem to hang on his every word and misrepresent him that have made such a big thing out of it... (nobody here of course). The dangers of any kind of theorising I guess.

sort of....definatly a bit of that.................but some of what he said is still crap.............but then again he's only human....alot of i say's crap as well


yep ms dinamite.....what a wicke track that is...shame she didnt do any thing else this good.........

this rocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij8UQU-Tp34

Drum n bass has all those things still, including the reggae influences - even if they tend to be employed in a rather shite fashion.

Oh come on... pull the other one.

Drum n bass has all those things still, including the reggae influences - even if they tend to be employed in a rather shite fashion.

Oh come on... pull the other one.

droid your right...in a way...it is stretching it........but the biggest influence from jamaica on all this is just the idea of a sound system and crews...imo....and that's still in most things

Drum n bass has all those things still, including the reggae influences - even if they tend to be employed in a rather shite fashion.

Oh come on... pull the other one.

That's exactly what I mean. It is down to personal preferences, at the end of the day.

If not, tell me why dnb doesn't qualify - according to the theory.

That's exactly what I mean. It is down to personal preferences, at the end of the day.

its nothing to do with personal preference. D+B today does not have the same geography - it is no longer disseminated mainly through pirate radio in London & the UK and its audience and producers are global, not local, it does not draw on the same influences as jungle/ardkore did except in the most marginal sense (despite your claim), it barely has any of the sonic signifiers, and (the subjective bit), the vibes are totally different.

Its like asking why reggaeton isnt part of the reggae 'nuum...

And btw - none of this is a qualitative judgement. I adore tons of non-nuum music.

D+B today does not have the same geography - it is no longer disseminated mainly through pirate radio in London & the UK

London is still the world home of drum n bass - however you rate what's happening there - dnb fans worldwide look to it as reggae fans look to Kingston. And regarding local pirate radio: dubstep? This is broadcast worldwide - it's not the preserve of some imagined ghetto in London.

and its audience and producers are global, not local,

See dubstep again.

it does not draw on the same influences as jungle/ardkore did except in the most marginal sense (despite your claim), it barely has any of the sonic signifiers

Actually I think you'll finds that it does: fast funk-derived breakbeats, sub-bass, nutty cartoon-like vocals, 'crazy' builds and drops, anonymous DJ-tunes, rewinds, MCs - some Djs even still cut plates.

and (the subjective bit), the vibes are totally different.

I'd agree with this part - but this part only. By any 'objective' reasoning, dnb features more ardkore charcteristics than dubstep - or grime.

London is still the world home of drum n bass - however you rate what's happening there - dnb fans worldwide look to it as reggae fans look to Kingston. And regarding local pirate radio: dubstep? This is broadcast worldwide - it's not the preserve of some imagined ghetto in London.

Er... the reason I engaged on this thread was not to get into a debate about the nuum, but simply to correct what I see as a couple of misinterpretations/misunderstandings about what Reynolds' is saying - and this is a perfect example.

One of the reasons there's been so much 'nuum talk recently is because of the reaction from grime heads and dubstppers to Reynolds' excluding dubstep (and later grime) from the 'nuum. Connected sure but not part of it - a 'branching off' as he says...

And whilst D+B heads may still look to London, its certainly nowhere near as Londonocentric as it once was... compared to something like grime for example.

Actually I think you'll finds that it does: fast funk-derived breakbeats, sub-bass, nutty cartoon-like vocals, 'crazy' builds and drops, anonymous DJ-tunes, rewinds, MCs - some Djs even still cut plates.

Sub-bass? don't you mean mid-range? 'breakbeats'? Havent heard them in a long time except on the fringes... Little or no reggae or hip hop influences except in the marginal sense, metal being the obvious usurper... MC's - sure. Some of the rituals remain.

I'd agree with this part - but this part only. By any 'objective' reasoning, dnb features more ardkore charcteristics than dubstep - or grime.

Well, I'm not sure you're familiar enough with grime to make that judgment TBH , Im not up-to-date on recent developments in grime myself. Dubstep Ive covered above.

And just to rundown Reynold's basic criteria again, for which D+B today fulfills maybe 3:

continuity of rituals
continuity of influence
continuity of process
continuity of personnel
continuity of population
continuity of geography
continuity of sound and of attitude

And whilst D+B heads may still look to London, its certainly nowhere near as Londonocentric as it once was... compared to something like grime for example.

Is Bassline London-centric?

Sub-bass? don't you mean mid-range? 'breakbeats'? Havent heard them in a long time except on the fringes... Little or no reggae or hip hop influences except in the marginal sense, metal being the obvious usurper... MC's - sure. Some of the rituals remain.

Well, I'm not sure you're familiar enough with grime to make that judgment TBH

Well, I could counter that you're not familiar enough with drum n bass to have an informed opinion on it either.

Sure, mid-range noises have taken the foregound in much dnb in recent years (then again, mid-range hyper-processed 'noise'/'bass' seems to be a staple feature of much grime - and many of the bigger dubstep tunes too)...

However the fact is that sub-bass remains a constant of dnb - go to any dnb night - even the shit commercial ones and you'll feel the subs.And breakbeats too, however much they may feel neutered - are still always in there. As for little or no reggae influences: fast-chat MCs, rewinds, sound-system/dubplate culture...? These too are all still staples of dnb culture, whether you like it or not.

In short, like Reynolds, I think you're being selective according to how it suits your tastes.

Well, I could counter that you're not familiar enough with drum n bass to have an informed opinion on it either.

You could - but youd be wrong. I listen to all kinds of stuff on juno and I DL mixes all the time. When was the last time you listened to grime?

Sure, mid-range noises have taken the foregound in much dnb in recent years (then again, mid-range hyper-processed 'noise'/'bass' seems to be a staple feature of much grime - and many of the bigger dubstep tunes too)...

Still waffling about dubstep are we?

However the fact is that sub-bass remains a constant of dnb - go to any dnb night - even the shit commercial ones and you'll feel the subs.And breakbeats too, however much they may feel neutered

Neutered to the point of practical non-existence. They're mainly used as a 1 bar backbeat these days as you know. Anyway - my emphasis was on 'broken' beats... fractured rhythms..

- are still always in there. As for little or no reggae influences: fast-chat MCs, rewinds, sound-system/dubplate culture...? These too are all still staples of dnb culture, whether you like it or not.

Er.. that's ritual - not musical influence.

In short, like Reynolds, I think you're being selective according to how it suits your tastes.

And I think youre being a contrary git for the sake of it as usual!

if it's true that this is were hardcore/rave has ended up....(which for all there sonic characteristics were still part of the second summer of love...E's ...football hooligans putting down there fists and dancing)....

...then it has all gone horribly wrong.....

i cant believe that and i wont..i have more hope for the human race than that..

this track has NOTHING to do with rave full-stop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3RDHmG2...re=related


i recon reynolds was hired by the cia's music division when he went to America........just what is he implying by linking these to?

this is what rave's about....as cheeses as it is


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3w4HIMHpY

Very good.

you could - but youd be wrong. i listen to all kinds of stuff on juno and i dl mixes all the time. when was the last time you listened to grime?

you should try and address the specific issues raised, rather than constantly looking for my credentials in association with any given genre. i could question much regarding your participation - or not - in various scenes - but i don't think that's really relevant to the points being made.

besides which, youtube has much to offer regarding all your favorite 'nuum' nuggets.

here' the first 3 hits looking for "grime instrumentals".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47hala2shiw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2eln525--s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s782t3wx63e

and here's the first 3 for "dubstep"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eplxfrfyo...=1&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmattwgxlii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt3vitrcsqk

pretty similar sonic palletes to present-day dnb, wouldn't you say?

still waffling about dubstep are we?

so dubstep's not in the nuum now? when did it get its licence revoked?!

[breakbeats] ... neutered to the point of practical non-existence. they're mainly used as a 1 bar backbeat these days as you know.

they're still present - and cut-up amen tracks come out all the time.

anyway - my emphasis was on 'broken' beats... fractured rhythms..

was the uk broken beats scene part of the nuum?

[reggae] er.. that's ritual - not musical influence.

you should listen to some calibre, shy fx, breakage, digital etc. you mightn't like how they intrepret the reggae influence, but it's present and undeniable in their music.

i think youre being a contrary git for the sake of it as usual!

perhaps. but that's not relevant to the discussion, is it?


btw... bassline? some response on that one please?

surly this theory is dead now....it's bean pretty well pulled apart.......nuum...yes it is a bit numb

i got the record wrong but i had the wright idea....the blue print for jungle came from america and was created by an american...that in my mind pulls most of the rug from under Reynold's feet, and sends the majority of his house of cards tumbling to the ground...................it was international to start with i love london and londoners but sometimes they do get a bit carried away with themselves. the world does not start and end in london. never has never will

on top of which are we really supposed to believe that this continuum exists out side of humans...something were swept along with...some ethereal essence....unexplainable force???? and he can prove the existence of this can he......

it seems like he should be working in particle physics not theorising on music...i'm sure the people at cern would be very interested in his profe of this.....

has ENYBODY actually seen this continuum?????

i think a picture is needed...a message...a seonce....anything......the theosophical society once claimed to have taken picture of ghosts...maybe we should contact them

In short, like Reynolds, I think you're being selective according to how it suits your tastes.

My issue with the nuum as a theory as it stands is partly that there's selectiveness in terms of how stringently you apply you criteria for inclusion (so the continuity of people from jungle to speed garage is important but the continuity of people from jungle to new dnb can be ignored) but also that it's selective in terms of what criteria you actually apply.

To me it seems obvious that there's a continuum of east london (mostly) reggae influenced (sometimes) scenius lead (although tbh, grime is if anything less about scenius than nu-dnb or trance or mnml or pretty much any other form of dance music) pirate radio supported rhythmically asymmetric (sometimes), but it's not at all obvious why those are in some way the defining characteristics of hardcore and hence the qualifications for inclusion in the 'hardcore continuum' whereas scenes that have stayed continuous in other ways - happy hardcore, nu dnb, crusty rave, dubstep, whichever of bassline or funky you decide isn't 'nuum' - are no longer part of it. Apart from personal preference, why privilege one particular strand?

[Statto]

only 4 pages?
they're up to page 33 on dissensus

only 4 pages?
they're up to page 33 on dissensus

Give Droid a chance, he's trying to induct his new baby into the nuum but the kid only likes skinny-trouser rock.

only 4 pages?
they're up to page 33 on dissensus

To be fair - the troll over there is a bit more interesting than the one round here.

To be fair - the troll over there is a bit more interesting than the one round here.

You should leave Slothrop alone. He's made some valid contributions to this discussion IMO.

troll's i thought this was a sensible discussion.....i'm intrigued where's this other thread??

skinny trousers rock....well that's what all the kids are into these day's...it's only adults that like d/b and the rest.......

my 5 years old son 'says' he likes drum and bass , but to be honest i think he's just doing that not to hurt my feelings......guitars is what he's natural drawn to....
.

photek

Thought I'd take a few questions straight to the source...


http://blog.fact.co.uk/?p=985#comment-165