drums, logic, mouse nightmare

49 Replies, 4727 Views

ok, this is seriously embarrassing Hahaha

as some may know I've been using trackers (buzz mainly) for aaaages now to make my tunes. I've never had the want to try something different, because for me it's just the most natural way to make drum'n'bass.

now there's no buzz on mac and I can't be arsed to use bootcamp/parallels to run buzz and I want to give logic a try.

which I did today. and creating a decent beat is a NIGHTMARE. do I really have to "paint" everything with the mouse? JEDIcrying this is soo annoying. there must be other ways.

what I did: used recycle (yes, I know. just for testing purposes) to slice an amen, saved it as soundfont, loaded it into exs24 and tried to make a beat. but how silly is that? the piano roll sucks bigtime, the notes are splattered all across 3 1/2 octaves so I can't edit properly on a laptop screen. also using the mouse seems so slow slow slow.

does logic have: key commands to enter notes? a good drum grid?
which sampler does by chance have an offset command (so I can use 1 single loop and slice it "on the fly") ...

I searched for some tutorials on youtube, but they are all pathetic (especially the future music one's with subfocus, chase & status, etc. - what a load of bollix. lameass beats with endless bassline modulation crap)

phew. rant over.

any help is highly(!!!) appreciated.
hmmm... dunno about recycle I tend to chop samples manually, but import them into ESX as follows:

Load the sampler
hit edit
in the zone menu, load multiple samples.
add all
select continuous zones
1 note per zone
select your start note and hit ok.
go to global preferences, click the "Caps Lock Keys" tab

make sure Enable Caps lock keys is ticked

I tend to leave the sustain option off so the space bar still plays / stops.

now when you press caps lock your mac keyboard will function as a piano keyboard.

The numbers select the octave, you can see the rest on the little keayboard that appears on screen when you activate it.
you can do practically everything in logic with keyboard shortcuts, I'm jst too damn lazy to figure them out.
cycom Wrote:ok, this is seriously embarrassing Hahaha

as some may know I've been using trackers (buzz mainly) for aaaages now to make my tunes. I've never had the want to try something different, because for me it's just the most natural way to make drum'n'bass.

now there's no buzz on mac and I can't be arsed to use bootcamp/parallels to run buzz and I want to give logic a try.

why change then Thomas?? obviously you'd mastered your sound using Buzz etc, seems a shame to interrupt your flow by switching both O.S AND sequencer...(been caning 'Void' on my headphones today off one of the Subtext shows from last summer Homerdrool) ....saying that though, i know you're into the mac mindset already - which is exactly what i found after not even giving OSX a chance for years then feeling a bit (or LOT) embarrassed when you do finally realise how much simpler things suddenly get.....Roll

cycom Wrote:which I did today. and creating a decent beat is a NIGHTMARE. do I really have to "paint" everything with the mouse? JEDIcrying this is soo annoying. there must be other ways.

what I did: used recycle (yes, I know. just for testing purposes) to slice an amen, saved it as soundfont, loaded it into exs24 and tried to make a beat. but how silly is that? the piano roll sucks bigtime, the notes are splattered all across 3 1/2 octaves so I can't edit properly on a laptop screen. also using the mouse seems so slow slow slow.

creating a beat on Logic is a piece of piss, and i do honestly get tired of all this Recycle slating - it works fine, you may just have to shift the odd marker a millimetre or two occasionally and then export, but then it's done - and you can always just drag the exported MIDI file into the arrangement if re-drawing is a blag - that way you keep the original quantise, too - know what you're saying about offset values which sounds cool (but completely alien) to me, but this is just how i'm used to working which is simple for me, as opposed to more numerical editing of trackers which always gave me headaches - i'm simply not the kind of person who can handle numbers very logically - when i use a piano roll however, i can kind of 'visualise' the break and where each component is, a bit like reading left to right - but that's how i've always worked from the amiga>atari & akai days right up until now...if i cut up a break on the Akai, it's exactly the same process as using an EXS24. it's just what you're used to i think, rather than either method being 'wrong' Roll also, you don't have to be confined by mouse/pad editing, just hit record and play notes in if that works for you....

ps you can easily reduce the editor screen sizes so you can edit quickly over however many octaves (laptop or not), and as for using a mouse?? fuck all that. always swore i'd never use a track-pad and now swear the complete opposite...absolutely pointless using a mouse on a mac, both for space and speed. between the pad and screensets you can work ridiculously quickly, once you get your head around it Grin

cycom Wrote:does logic have: key commands to enter notes? a good drum grid?
which sampler does by chance have an offset command (so I can use 1 single loop and slice it "on the fly") ...

not sure about the offset thing, which does interest me though. (let me know if you find anything!) a good drum grid for me though is simply a piano/matrix editor, as i can relate to keyboard notes far better than mathematical values, but again, each to their own. as Paul said, the QWERTY thing is very handy i find, for when you're away from a synth for inputting notes

cycom Wrote:I searched for some tutorials on youtube, but they are all pathetic (especially the future music one's with subfocus, chase & status, etc. - what a load of bollix. lameass beats with endless bassline modulation crap)

phew. rant over.

any help is highly(!!!) appreciated.

good to know you hated those tutorials, i'd be worried otherwise Hahaha

ps PM you tomorrow afternoon for even more of a bollocking Lol

maff
http://www.renoise.com/ :-)
should've known some bugger would just type that Hahaha
well, first of all thanks for the suggestions.

I've already found out about the caps lock keyboard, but that's not exactly what I was searching for (I do have a midikeyboard attached aswell) - but I hear there's a stepsequencer edit mode? that might be convenient.

Also, I've already tried renoise - it's okay, but then again not nearly as flexbile as buzz, and to be fair- that's not a real option. I don't wanna move myself back again into the ghetto of tracker software Wink

Maff, I really want to give logic a chance and no - I won't return to windows for obvious reasons. I don't think I'm in a "mac mindset" (whatever that is Smile), but I have come to prefer the system over windows (might change again after seeing what Windows 7 does, but Chin I doubt it Wink).

I tried to narrow down the problem with the pianoroll and I think it boils down to the fact that
a) I haven't myself familiarised enough with the shortcuts/click combinations available to edit notes. I find myself always moving pixelwise to find that tiny tiny spot where the pointer becomes an arrow etc. - that's proper shite (and how can you say the trackpad is a good input device?? how small are your fingers? Lol why would I move a silly pointer across the whole screen with my index finger, when I could use ALL TEN fingers on hundreds of keys instantly on my keyboard?)
b) - which is rather more annoying - I have no visual feedback whatsoever, which part of the break sits on which note! how can you life with that? I mean, it's different for each break depending on how the slices are being cut by recycle, innit? - in buzz I was used to clear indication wether I'm hitting my snare, hihats, kick or whatever now (ok, not exactly, but at least I could spot immediately, which 16th).
c) I really miss the break playing on from where I started it (i.e. when I manually cut it into pieces that are longer than 16th/8th)

I understand that it's a matter of practice and it did took some time until I perfected using buzz for sure. Yet the mentioned problems really annoy me and while I can get better at a) and find a workaround for c) (by manually cutting a break, which I haven't done in yeeears Roll) - I still think b) is the most crucial for really getting comfortable with Logic.

Btw, how do I switch to drumgrid mode?

Wave
elektrovert Wrote:you can do practically everything in logic with keyboard shortcuts, I'm jst too damn lazy to figure them out.

don't be, shortcuts are the key to actually enjoy software Wink

just found http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=15307 Xyxthumbs
Make the track in Buzz > export tracks > mix in logic Icon_question
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
Macc Wrote:Make the track in Buzz > export tracks > mix in logic Icon_question

Well, I could but *sigh* - I don't want to use Windows anymore.

I think I can profit from the other functions of Logic. I always missed proper midi functionality in Buzz. And there are a lot of features in Logic I couldn't have dreamed of before. Yet, the beat editing is what always kept me returning to Buzz.

But I've gotta stay strong this time Hahaha Need to get rid of all these buggy parts of Buzz (clicks on attacks in subbasslines, etc. - you already had to deal a couple of times with this crap - no wait, you ignored it Teef)

Anyway, I really wanna switch. I just feel I need some tips.

How do you go about drum editing in Cubase, Bob. Piano roll? *shudder*

And is there any sort of "best practice organisational structure" in your sample mapping, that probably makes it easier to spot which note contains which part of the beat?

I feel I just need some insight. Anyone up for a screencast? Teef
Well there are some kind of step seq mode in Logic. Its called "Event List". I never used it, its toooo complcated for my, but im shure its came from the old Notator software.

It looks like an old MIDI seq.
snaper Wrote:Well there are some kind of step seq mode in Logic. Its called "Event List". I never used it, its toooo complcated for my, but im shure its came from the old Notator software.

It looks like an old MIDI seq.

Chin will look into that. but it sounds not too promising. event list is probably something different (entering timing's etc - it's not a grid) - also I think I recall something like that from cubase and it heavily depended on mouse use.

No, I mean something like a real "step by step entering mode" - I think it does exist in Logic (it does in Cubase)...
I come from a tracker background mate, but the piano roll seems pretty normal to me these days. I've tried to go back to tracker'ing and it feels alien to me now even though I used it for the best part of 10 years on the Amiga - right from the original Soundtracker.

If I was you, I'd give Renoise more of a chance if it feels natural to you. It's got as much flexibility as Logic for the average producer plus VST support in with the bargain. Depends how deep you want to go, I've longed to try and get into Renoise because I loved trackers and want VST support (Reason doesn't of course).

Got to agree with Maff about Recycle. I think it's top dog personally and has made life easier for us as producers. Yes it's not always accurate but the time saving is massive. (BTW if you need Recycle give me a shout, there's a newish Leopard version which actually works).

Good luck and stick with it Grin
WiLSHY Wrote:…average producer…

Nono mind you! Smile


Quote:Got to agree with Maff about Recycle. I think it's top dog personally and has made life easier for us as producers. Yes it's not always accurate but the time saving is massive. (BTW if you need Recycle give me a shout, there's a newish Leopard version which actually works).

thanks, mate. got that already Cool I still don't like that everything is sliced. I'd rather have slides that start at different hits, but go right to the end of the sample Grumble

Quote:Good luck and stick with it Grin

Xyxthumbs I will Yes
Average is best Teef

Draw the edits in yourself on Recycle. Hit the pencil in the toolbar then you can draw them wherever you like. Delete edits by right clicking on them. Use the slider to select how intricate you want Recycle to edit, or just turn it off and draw them in yourself.

Keep us up to date with Logic. I want to move out of Reason, maybe use it Rewiring into Logic. So be good to hear the thoughts of a switcher Wink
WiLSHY Wrote:Average is best Teef

Draw the edits in yourself on Recycle. Hit the pencil in the toolbar then you can draw them wherever you like. Delete edits by right clicking on them. Use the slider to select how intricate you want Recycle to edit, or just turn it off and draw them in yourself.

Chin right, I remember. probably I good idea for me is to make a 1 bar loop, 2 bars, cut the first into 3 sections or so, then the 2nd into 8th or 16th (or whatever recycle suggests) - could be a helper!

Quote:Keep us up to date with Logic. I want to move out of Reason, maybe use it Rewiring into Logic. So be good to hear the thoughts of a switcher Wink

Will do Yes
WiLSHY Wrote:I come from a tracker background mate, but the piano roll seems pretty normal to me these days. I've tried to go back to tracker'ing and it feels alien to me now even though I used it for the best part of 10 years on the Amiga - right from the original Soundtracker.

If I was you, I'd give Renoise more of a chance if it feels natural to you. It's got as much flexibility as Logic for the average producer plus VST support in with the bargain. Depends how deep you want to go, I've longed to try and get into Renoise because I loved trackers and want VST support (Reason doesn't of course).

Got to agree with Maff about Recycle. I think it's top dog personally and has made life easier for us as producers. Yes it's not always accurate but the time saving is massive. (BTW if you need Recycle give me a shout, there's a newish Leopard version which actually works).

Good luck and stick with it Grin

ooOOooh I could do with a version of Recycle that actually works... Smile Mona
I came from trackers too, but piano roll is god for me...
Piano roll or stfu.

Why not load the sample into shortcircuit and map start points to keys? Smile
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
Macc Wrote:Piano roll or stfu.

Why not load the sample into shortcircuit and map start points to keys? Smile

Grin
Macc Wrote:Why not load the sample into shortcircuit and map start points to keys? Smile

No Mac version innit bludz.
Guess I'll have to be the lone voice chiming in for Ableton Live. The Drum Racks and "Slice To New MIDI Track" are a godsend. I haven't needed Recycle in ages.
I just can't get to grips with composing in Live at all.
I find the work flow terrible. it's very "clunky" or something. Grin
Hence forking out a small fortune to get a macbook and Logic.
Raging I didn't do it 6 months ago.
snaper Wrote:I came from trackers too, but piano roll is god for me...

Chin

Macc Wrote:Piano roll or stfu.

Chin Chin

Macc Wrote:Why not load the sample into shortcircuit and map start points to keys? Smile

Hyper Hyper Hyper

WiLSHY Wrote:
Macc Wrote:Why not load the sample into shortcircuit and map start points to keys? Smile

No Mac version innit bludz.

JEDIcrying Spank Roll

Lephrenic Wrote:Guess I'll have to be the lone voice chiming in for Ableton Live. The Drum Racks and "Slice To New MIDI Track" are a godsend. I haven't needed Recycle in ages.

Chin we'll see... I'm really happy with some of the stuff logic gives me and after all it's an apple product now and I've become a bit of a fanboy recently Oops

I've worked a bit with Live a couple of years ago (5.0? dunno...) I hear it's become even better. Might give it another try...
If I'm starting from scratch I really should be open to all options Yes Xyxthumbs

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