Occupy together Oct 15th

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Any thoughts?

Who's involved?

http://www.occupytogether.org/

I for one am quite enthusiastic about it. Loads of frustration I finally can channel Wink
this is kind of relevant:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/12...hat-53-Guy
Well, kind of. I don't really like the way it's written, but he's made a good point.

To me the occupy movement is not only about Wall Street "sharing the pain", but it's more generally about neoliberal greed and the problem of deregulation.

I've been asking myself for a while now, how long it will work to privatise gains and socialise losses. Bailing out banks with tax payers money while they keep paying ridiculous incentives and continue pushing the same high risk financial products. It's about time people stand up against that.

The main issue to me is to break the resistance in politics and lobbyism against the long-needed regulation of financial markets. A transaction tax would be a first step, but there's a lot more to be done.
cycom Wrote:To me the occupy movement is not only about Wall Street "sharing the pain", but it's more generally about neoliberal greed and the problem of deregulation.

I've been asking myself for a while now, how long it will work to privatise gains and socialise losses. Bailing out banks with tax payers money while they keep paying ridiculous incentives and continue pushing the same high risk financial products. It's about time people stand up against that.

Indeed Xyxthumbs
http://15october.net/
http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Not...GB/393442/

Chin
Statto Wrote:http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Not...GB/393442/

Chin

Do eet!

The "others" do it too Baffled

http://tea-party.meetup.com/
I'd love to. Are there any protests in Germany besides Frankfurt? Hamburg, Bremen?
couldn't make it Oops
i think they all should spend their time and read some books. books about how captalism works. f.e. marx "kapital". hopefully then they realize that their criticism is shortened and a simple redistribution of wealth or money (like attac aims for) will not solve the problems we`re facing.

don`t hate the player. hate the game! Cool
I think that's the second step. These protests can make people more aware of the problems and they get to know that they are not alone with their feeling that something is wrong with the system. Now some of them will think / read about alternatives. To sit at home and criticise is easy Wink
haxhi Wrote:I think that's the second step. These protests can make people more aware of the problems and they get to know that they are not alone with their feeling that something is wrong with the system. Now some of them will think / read about alternatives. To sit at home and criticise is easy Wink

i spend enough time on the streets to know that this will not happen.Wink
there were many points in history where people could have start being more aware of but they didn`t. and these protests are not about to overcome the system or whatever. they`re claiming laws from the government. they want that the people came first before the profit but people have to work, creating overvalue and the result is profit.and that is an abstract system.

so you can`t blame the bank or the greed of the banker. you have to begin by looking at the process of work and how this is organized.
there was a bit on the radio bout this on the way to work this morning and I was thinking that they should go live in the real world and get a job.....and then some of them said that they were leaving to go to work but would be back later in the week Oops
Hahaha
pardon my french, but what a load of bollocks.

this protest does make very much sense. of course we could all read more and dream of utopia, but what's it gonna change? this mindset is exactly what led to the society we now have. most people didn't care, but those who did and understood were mostly too cynical to protest.

of course it won't change the whole system, but protest reminds politicians who their employers are. a lot of reactions already show that a paradigm shift is about to happen.

and I don't think I'm being naive about this.
cycom Wrote:pardon my french, but what a load of bollocks.

this protest does make very much sense. of course we could all read more and dream of utopia, but what's it gonna change? this mindset is exactly what led to the society we now have. most people didn't care, but those who did and understood were mostly to cynical to protest.

whats wrong about to criticize this protest? it has nothing to do with dreaming about utopia to say that the protesters view is way to short. a protest with no reasoning will led to nowhere and i think it`s ok to think over the subject for your own before running through the streets or sit in front of a bank with people who have no idea for what they are protesting for. theres only one thing they have in common; against the bank. and thats more of a mass hysteria.

cycom Wrote:of course it won't change the whole system, but protest reminds politicians who their employers are. a lot of reactions already show that a paradigm shift is about to happen.

way to soon to even think about that. i don`t say that nothing will happen but nothing serious. and in a few weeks the protest is over.
lament Wrote:whats wrong about to criticize this protest? it has nothing to do with dreaming about utopia to say that the protesters view is way to short. a protest with no reasoning will led to nowhere and i think it`s ok to think over the subject for your own before running through the streets or sit in front of a bank with people who have no idea for what they are protesting for.

Well, why do you assume "they" don't know what they are protesting for (or rather against)?

While I do agree, that this is a *very* diverse movement and there's obviously a lot of bandwagon-jumping from political parties going on now, and the whole thing is fueled by different interests, there is still common ground. As you pointed out: it's being against the greed of banks and the instability of the whole financial system due to deregulation.

And in my opinion that's the opposite of mass hysteria. It's common sense which has finally returned and something that's been long long overdue and which needs to be addressed by governments.

Of course you can hold against every protest, that it doesn't address all issues or is shortsighted. But that's somewhat of a thought-terminating cliché: it doesn't take you anywhere.

I didn't mean to offend you or be dismissive of constructive criticism, but ...

lament Wrote:i think they all should spend their time and read some books.

is simply a smug elitist remark Wink
lament Wrote:i think they all should spend their time and read some books. books about how captalism works. f.e. marx "kapital". hopefully then they realize that their criticism is shortened and a simple redistribution of wealth or money (like attac aims for) will not solve the problems we`re facing.

don`t hate the player. hate the game! Cool

At a fundamental level, I have to agree with this; however, that's not to say that protesting doesn't have its place. Cycom seems to have a fairly adroit understanding of the concepts behind what is going on but the protests I've been to seem so emotionally driven, bandwagon riders hyping people up without really exploring the underlying issues nor taking the time to actually educate at a protest.

I feel like protesting is one step that should be followed by people going out and getting educated on the issues that concern them; that, unfortunately requires much more commitment and energy.
It will take a huge effort to break the finance lobby's influence, so I rather prefer a big mass of angry people over only a handful of phlegmatic experts.
Well, no. What Im saying is that protests have their place and are constructive, but so is education and knowledge - why only a handful of experts, when you can have a whole society of them?
cycom Wrote:It will take a huge effort to break the finance lobby's influence, so I rather prefer a big mass of angry people over only a handful of phlegmatic experts.

really? i think that could be very dangerous and it`s exactly why i don`t want to join these people and at some point retrieve myself in some kind of a mob.like this:

and i dont want to imply the occupy protesters are even close to nazism but thats a example of what can happen when an angry mob takes over. and we know that they burned books instead of reading them. Oops

sorry, i think metal has made a good point and cycom, i don`t want to offend you either and at some point you were right. it was smug "elitist remark" Wink
Of course Smile But that's sort of beside the point imo. It's just not possible to educate people properly anymore. Sure, it'd be great if every single one of the protesters understood all of the intricacies of the financial systems. But that's still not helping to change anything. People have to act. For example moving your bank account to a bank acting morally (there are some!).

Europe is about to bail out banks again, which could've capitalised themselves easily in the last 3 years. The system is broke and needs to be fixed. Banks need to become smaller, less system relevant and investment banks need to be cut off from regular banks.

Rules need to be reinstalled: a transaction tax to avoid high frequency trade, no more speculation on agricultural goods, causing poor people around the world to starve, making filthy rich people even richer, no more betting on the decline of economies, etc. etc.

It's madness and we all know it.

So what's wrong with a little civil disobedience, may it be educated or not?
cycom Wrote:People have to act.


sadly not enough people, if any will do anything like this, i think the whole thing is a bit of a Banghead
lament Wrote:and i dont want to imply the occupy protesters are even close to nazism but thats a example of what can happen when an angry mob takes over.

so why do you do it? Nono

that's apples and oranges and another cliché. the protests so far have been extremely peaceful. the wallstreet occupists even cleaned up their park in order not to get moved. it is not very suitable (nor knowledgeable) to compare the pogroms to this protest, man.

so what would you suggest? call the whole thing off and let the political class and high finance have their way?

fiasko Wrote:sadly not enough people

another weird argument Baffled

fiasko Wrote:i think the whole thing is a bit of a Banghead

could you tell me why exactly? just because it's a grassroots thing and therefore not sophisticated or politically elaborate?

I would really like to know, why people don't care about the fact, that a small minority is about to destroy the foundations of democracy.
yes I totally support this Grin

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