Olivier Messiaen anyone?

[Statto]

points taken

the young one speaks sense

[Statto]

this looked like a lost cause at the beginning......but 3 pages on a rethink is in order I feel

this is a cool topic...my sense of classical music history and harmonic structure is sadly lacking.

how is glass a minimalist? what defines serialism?

well i dont care what you guys say, and i dont have a vast knowledge of contempory classical music...but seeing phillip glass score 'Koyaanisqatsi' live at the barbican was fucking amazing.

plus he's provided many samples for me and neppers! anyone know a tune called 'land of the dead'

yeah...i'm not too sure why everyone is slagging on glass, either.

really?

sounds interesting.......although I hope he's just not another Phillip Glass wannabee?

I never meant that as a diss on Mr.Glass,honestly

[Statto]

how is glass a minimalist? what defines serialism?

minimalism
steve reich
philip glass
serial music

this is a cool topic...my sense of classical music history and harmonic structure is sadly lacking.

how is glass a minimalist? what defines serialism?

minimalism means a totally different thing in classical music than it does in dance music. basically it means repetition of various themes over the whole piece with slight variation. it's very, very, very, very, very boring when it's done badly. phillip glass does it badly in my opinion, his music sounds very clichéd.

check the links statto posted

what kind of themes? harmonic themes?

how does one do it "badly"? i'm not trying to be a bug...i'm really curious.

what kind of themes? harmonic themes?

Harmonic themes and melodic themes, yes Far from something like minimal techno, a lot of minimalism tends to be very texturally dense indeed!

how does one do it "badly"? i'm not trying to be a bug...i'm really curious.

Basically, Phillip Glass writes minimalism where he concentrates on repeating melody in certain parts, like a ground bass for example, and then just packs as many themes as he can on top of it. The minimalism I tend to like is far more subtle than that, and often concentrates on harmony more than it does on melody. This means that it can be quite hard to find the strands of harmony that link the themes together, which is a great challenge in my opinion The thing is, whilst repetition works very well in dance music, it doesn't work so well when you're in a concert hall, sitting down, and not making any noise or movement at all, so with classical music a composer really needs to keep the listeners interest. For me, Phillip Glass doesn't because his melodic repetition is far too "obvious."

I hope that makes sense, it's a bit of a stream of consciousness

isn't Phillip Glass the guy who sat down at Piano for about 20mins,played & said nothing & then walked off.

isn't Phillip Glass the guy who sat down at Piano for about 20mins,played & said nothing & then walked off.

Don't think so, but maybe. John Cage wrote a track called 4 minutes 52, which is a pianist sitting at a piano for four minutes and fifty two seconds in silence, then walking off again. He did a lot of very off the wall stuff like that.

[Statto]

Don't think so, but maybe. John Cage wrote a track called 4 minutes 52, which is a pianist sitting at a piano for four minutes and fifty two seconds in silence, then walking off again. He did a lot of very off the wall stuff like that.

4'33"

Cage's point is that all sound can be music
so during a performance of 4'33" the pianist isn't creating the music at all — the environmental sounds are the music... e.g. a bus going past outside the concert hall, someone in the audience coughing, and so forth

a lot of Cage's music sounds better on paper than in reality

Don't think so, but maybe. John Cage wrote a track called 4 minutes 52, which is a pianist sitting at a piano for four minutes and fifty two seconds in silence, then walking off again. He did a lot of very off the wall stuff like that.

4'33"

Cage's point is that all sound can be music
so during a performance of 4'33" the pianist isn't creating the music at all — the environmental sounds are the music... e.g. a bus going past outside the concert hall, someone in the audience coughing, and so forth

a lot of Cage's music sounds better on paper than in reality

Curses, I always get it wrong

I like a lot of Cages work, like his stuff for prepared piano. I went to a concert in the festival hall a while back which was the London Sinfonietta playing orchestrated versions of Warp artists. Interesting stuff It was interspered by works by John Cage, Stockhausen and Ligeti, and also video's of stuff like Monkey Drummer and Granz Graf

That's who I was thinking of...John Cage...He's the guy who puts nails in Piano strings & shit like that.

so during a performance of 4'33" the pianist isn't creating the music at all — the environmental sounds are the music... e.g. a bus going past outside the concert hall, someone in the audience coughing, and so forth

...and the pianist turning the pages of the score. That's the best thing about this track, he wrote it down... all pauses.

UFO, that totally makes sense! this forum FUCKING ROCKS for people sharing information in a really considered, evocative, well-spoken manner.

boh!

i can appreciate john cage's intent...i think that kind of fucking with institutionalisation is integral to any aesthetic form...that's why i've always appreciated marcel duchamps and the dada movement. the unfortunate thing is that they invariably end up getting co-opted by the elitist institutions they set out to flaunt.

john zorn also does some really neat things like that...he'll conduct an "orchestra" by holding up flash cards.

ie. the blue card will signal a person in that orchestra to contribute a spontaneous sound.

it's hype.

UFO, that totally makes sense! this forum FUCKING ROCKS for people sharing information in a really considered, evocative, well-spoken manner.

boh!

i can appreciate john cage's intent...i think that kind of fucking with institutionalisation is integral to any aesthetic form...that's why i've always appreciated marcel duchamps and the dada movement. the unfortunate thing is that they invariably end up getting co-opted by the elitist institutions they set out to flaunt.

Totally. Maybe Phillip Glass' melodic minimalism would work better with a chopped up amen and an MC going "MAKE SOME FUCKING NOISE FOR THE BERLIN SYMPHONY! WHEN I SAY VIOLIN YOU SAY STRINGS! BOOOOOOOOOH!"

john zorn also does some really neat things like that...he'll conduct an "orchestra" by holding up flash cards.

ie. the blue card will signal a person in that orchestra to contribute a spontaneous sound.

"Cobra," which I think was named after the video game, would be one of the main recordings of that. Interesting stuff.

Also check his arrangements of Ennio Morricone: "The Big Gundown."

Totally. Maybe Phillip Glass' melodic minimalism would work better with a chopped up amen and an MC going "MAKE SOME FUCKING NOISE FOR THE BERLIN SYMPHONY! WHEN I SAY VIOLIN YOU SAY STRINGS! BOOOOOOOOOH!

This probably won't be news to a lot of you, but there have been several collaborations, and/or remixes (can't remember precisely) involving Glass and EDM artists. Aphex did one, and I do think someone semi-dnb-related released a remix or something a few years ago (I'm thinking it's someone vaguely connected/descended from the NUT/Nico camp). Can't remember exactly. The omnivorous Bill Laswell (of whom I'm not a huge fan) I think also might have been involved in some odd Glass(ish) project.

You can probably tell that most things involving Glass don't really hold my interest...hence I'm probably wrong about the other artists above...but the point is, his music has, in a manner of speaking, crossed over a little.

This probably won't be news to a lot of you, but there have been several collaborations, and/or remixes (can't remember precisely) involving Glass and EDM artists. Aphex did one, and I do think someone semi-dnb-related released a remix or something a few years ago (I'm thinking it's someone vaguely connected/descended from the NUT/Nico camp). Can't remember exactly. The omnivorous Bill Laswell (of whom I'm not a huge fan) I think also might have been involved in some odd Glass(ish) project.

You can probably tell that most things involving Glass don't really hold my interest...hence I'm probably wrong about the other artists above...but the point is, his music has, in a manner of speaking, crossed over a little.

You know Charlemagne Palestine?

[Statto]

I like a lot of Cages work, like his stuff for prepared piano. I went to a concert in the festival hall a while back which was the London Sinfonietta playing orchestrated versions of Warp artists. Interesting stuff It was interspered by works by John Cage, Stockhausen and Ligeti, and also video's of stuff like Monkey Drummer and Granz Graf

do you know his Constructions (for percussion ensemble)?



actually I think that's where the prepared piano came from... it was too much trouble getting all the percussion together, so he made a single player percussion instrument by preparing the piano