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reverbs spring tape real delay

Thread Contributor: dee bee onereal tape delay / spring reverbs ..

#1
i'm thinking of picking up a real analog tape delay and an actual spring reverb (with a spring it it!) ...

reverb should be pretty cheap but a tape delay (one of the space echos or a watkins copycat) could be expensive .. partly i'm curious to have a play around with them but i also suspect they will sound very different to their vst versions ..

does this seem like a complete waste of time and money??

(mods - sorry if this should have gone in the studio forum Oops )
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#2
No it sounds like a great idea, and is probably one of those things that will give your sound warmth, esp if you use a lot of plugs.

Depends if they end up being a hassle to integrate into your set-up compared to the pretty good sounding reverb and delay plugs out there though... Wink Baffled

It would be loads of fun to work on a dub techno project with that kind of kit, the tracky nature of the techno form probably lends itself to some real time delay action... Smile

(thread probably should be in Studio Walls though Cool )
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#3
my old roomate used to have an old guitar amp with a built-in tape delay [Image: homer_drool.gif]
send fi de hacksaw[Image: archangel-michael-holy-card.jpg]
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#4
tape delay, analog delay, almost essential (they feed back unlike digital delay)!

...also, have an Accutronics 'verb tank that sounds wiiiiiicked
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#5
sounds nice to me! Xyxthumbs
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#6
dee bee one Wrote:i'm thinking of picking up a real analog tape delay and an actual spring reverb (with a spring it it!) ...

plate reverb?

nothing else sounds like this

Icon_yippee
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#7
a plate 'verb is different from a spring 'verb... but you're absolutely right, they sound fantastic


a plate verb is a transducer attached to a metal plate, with a damper to adjust reverb time... a spring 'verb is two or three springs instead of a plate
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#8
excellent idea, especially for everything dubby


spring reverb:

easy to build yourself, you'll need a spring tank like accutronics, and pre/post amplification & impendance matching. this can be done with opamps and very few components. let me know if you want instructions/schematics..
you should be able to build it for about $80 (more if you are based in europe because spring tanks go for twice the money here)


tape delay:

can also be done yourself, but as few tape recorders have fully adjustable motors for adjusting delay time its easier to buy one.
roland has the most famous ones (space echo) which actually include a spring reverb as well. you might need to do some maintainance though. they go for about $500


plate reverb:

this is basically a huge sheet of metal suspended in air. the EMT ones are most famous and fairly expensive as well. it should be fairly easy to do a smaller version yourself, all you need is a sheet of metal, a loudspeaker to drive the plate and a microphone or two to pick up the vibrations.. ive been planning on making one for a while, if anyone has experience let me know!
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#9
yeah man, spring reverbs are nice - i have a guitar amp with one in and you get some wicked sounds just by whacking it Falcon

as for tape delay........ hmmmmmm, you could rig one yourself.....? but i reckon just buy the psp84 cos it reeeeally is the dog's pyjamas..... psp are the digital tape-emulation kings....
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#10
dharma one Wrote:plate reverb:

this is basically a huge sheet of metal suspended in air. the EMT ones are most famous and fairly expensive as well. it should be fairly easy to do a smaller version yourself, all you need is a sheet of metal, a loudspeaker to drive the plate and a microphone or two to pick up the vibrations.. ive been planning on making one for a while, if anyone has experience let me know!

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/tap.../plate.php

If I'd not spent the last year and a half building my studio, I'd take this on too.

In lieu of that, I rely on tried-and-true digital reverb (PCM 91 being the best of the lot, although a TC M4000 is in my future as is a KSP 8, and, if I'm really crazy, another 91), although I'm lucky to have a great sounding living room for drums and certain instruments.
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#11
Macc Wrote:But I reckon just buy the PSP84 cos it reeeeally is the dog's pyjamas..... PSP are the digital tape-emulation KINGS....

too obvious sounding i reckon. as is the Logic tape delay. Both are used frequently by me anyhow!!!

i didnt think the PSP84 was an acutall tape delay emulator?

i'd love a roland space echo. too fucking nice!!! a la danny breaks - Vibrations LP!!!
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#12
pieter Wrote:http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/tap.../plate.php

If I'd not spent the last year and a half building my studio, I'd take this on too.

In lieu of that, I rely on tried-and-true digital reverb (PCM 91 being the best of the lot, although a TC M4000 is in my future as is a KSP 8, and, if I'm really crazy, another 91), although I'm lucky to have a great sounding living room for drums and certain instruments.

thanks, should have known tape op delivers!
its a good idea to use a driver like that.. i think the olympia sound bug would work well - not the most linear freq response but should be good enough for reverb.

this doesnt look like a huge undertaking, i'll try building one soon. i think i'll try with a smaller plate size first though

you might be interested, there are a bunch of tc m3000, m6000 and ksp 8 impulse responses at http://www.noisevault.com, very much worth checking
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#13
DJFracture Wrote:
Macc Wrote:But I reckon just buy the PSP84 cos it reeeeally is the dog's pyjamas..... PSP are the digital tape-emulation KINGS....

too obvious sounding i reckon. as is the Logic tape delay. Both are used frequently by me anyhow!!!

i didnt think the PSP84 was an acutall tape delay emulator?

The Logic tape delay doesn't have half the sonic flexibility of the PSP, not at all. The saturation is also poooooor in comparison to the PSP (as is OhmBoyz). The most obvious thing about the PSP's sound is the reverb.

If you aren't getting the right sounds out of the PSP, you aint using it right... The filter too is delicious.

Of course it is a tape delay - have you not used the VCO section? :P
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#14
studio forum boys, that's what it's for.

Xyxthumbs

good topic, diy has to be the way to go, cos then you not only get an actual delay or 'verb unit, but no-one else has one that sounds quite like it.

plus, you can get different effects from the 'verb by using it in different rooms etc.

tiled bathroom for mental early reflections anyone?
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#15
Macc Wrote:The Logic tape delay doesn't have half the sonic flexibility of the PSP, not at all. The saturation is also poooooor in comparison to the PSP (as is OhmBoyz). The most obvious thing about the PSP's sound is the reverb.

If you aren't getting the right sounds out of the PSP, you aint using it right... The filter too is delicious.

Of course it is a tape delay - have you not used the VCO section? :P

you know as well as i do that ive used everything the PSP84 has to offer, and, i love it. i just think its very obvious sounding, as is most VST stuff.

personally, i think its the filter that gives the PSP84 that "obviously a PSP84" sound.

Logic tape delay is feeds back real nice too. just push the feedback to 55-60% then bring it back down Homerdrool

but as i said... they are both average alternatives to a roland space echo. im pretty sure nucleus has one for all those weird FX in the lastest N+P joints.
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#16
Of course, SOUND-wise I would rather have a real box that you can kick to make oddball noises........

But SPACE and INTEGRATION-wise, the PSP makes up for what it lacks IMHO.

Of course if I owned a space echo, I might talk differently Hahaha
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#17
What are everyone's thoughts re convolution 'verbs?
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#18
Gorgeous.

Well, provided the impulses are gorgeous of course.... Grin
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#19
Düffah Wrote:What are everyone's thoughts re convolution 'verbs?

i love it, i've waited for that technology to come for DAWs for a long time.

convoluted digital reverbs sound identical to hardware.. and some acoustic spaces sound excellent as well. now who's gonna make the first dynamic convolution plugin so we can sample hardware compressors as well!??

it's not perfect though, i've recorded some spring reverb impulses but they dont sound like the real units because a spring reverb is basically nonlinear, with the sound depending very much on the frequency, amplitude, transients etc of the incoming audio. convolution only works for things that behave linearly
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#20
dharma one Wrote:now who's gonna make the first dynamic convolution plugin so we can sample hardware compressors as well!??

Been done! Focusrite Liquid Channel.

Expect them out any minute for a hefty price tag of £2300........

BUT I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#21
Macc Wrote:
dharma one Wrote:now who's gonna make the first dynamic convolution plugin so we can sample hardware compressors as well!??

Been done! Focusrite Liquid Channel.

Expect them out any minute for a hefty price tag of £2300........

BUT I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah liquid channel looks tasty.. but its dedicated hardware. id like to see that as a plugin
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#22
Ahhhh, I see what you mean now..........

You can't download a liquid channel, eh Wink Grin
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#23
well i mean, £2300 for a mono compressor is beyond my budget!

just wondering why anyone hasnt implemented this as software since it would knock out all existing software compressors
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#24
It is hardcore technology, the processing power it requires is SICK - offline only, man.

Also not as easy as reverb for reasons that are beyond my brain on Friday at 5:30 after two lunchtime beers Smile Grin
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#25
Also not as easy as reverb for reasons that are beyond my brain on Friday at 5:30 after two lunchtime beers Smile Grin

heheh. detox weekend for me man Icon_eek

Macc Wrote:It is hardcore technology, the processing power it requires is SICK - offline only, man.

ok lets break it down

liquid channel is basically based on technology focusrite licensed from sintefex. i havent seen liquid channel spex but a similar unit from sintefex (with 2 channels and without the mic pres on the liquid channel) uses 9 SHARC DSPs for convolution - which amounts to 800Mflops per channel.

thats is only required for 96khz operation though. if you scaled that down to 48khz , 4 SHARC DSPs would be enough for two channels of dynamic convolution. creamwares pulsar has 6 SHARC DSPs, so you could run it on that or some other DSP card like UAD easy. dunno how well it would run on a standard desktop processor though. i dont think its much more intensive than linear convolution, you just keep changing the sampled impulse response to match the level of the incoming audio

of course the actual sampling of the equipment is a fair amount of work and a strong selling point for focusrite and sintefex units which come with massive libraries

still.. £2300 for one channel..come on!½!!
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