n00bs - gain structure - Printable Version +- Subvert Central (http://subvertcentral.com/forum) +-- Forum: Main Forums (http://subvertcentral.com/forum/forum-4.html) +--- Forum: Audio Production and Engineering (http://subvertcentral.com/forum/forum-17.html) +--- Thread: n00bs - gain structure (/thread-24739.html) Pages:
1
2
|
n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 7th December 2005 This is from a PM convo with Senator Adam, it may be a bit vague until you get used to things, but it might help... Macc Wrote:Senator Adam Wrote:To answer your question I don't have a method with the master fader besides adjusting it so the audio doesn't clip. One thing I forgot to mention Adam, is that I turn down my master only at mixdown just as a safety precaution. However I am killing that habit off now too by leaving more headroom in the mix, so nothing clips, ever. Chime in with q's etc if you wish... n00bs - gain structure - Code - 7th December 2005 Nice one Macc ! Very good, informative (and funny) analogy!!! n00bs - gain structure - Code - 7th December 2005 Actually, one question springs to mind... about dB levels. I studied dB's in collage (but not hard enough obviously!) Anyhow, say you had 2 tracks (drums + bass) @ -3 db's each, would that work ? I'm forgetting how the scale works I think, care to recap? n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 7th December 2005 -6dB is half the available headroom. -3dB is about 70%ish (some decimal points I can't be fucked to remember), so having two tracks running at peak levels of -3dB would result in clipping - they add up to 140% or so. Of course, you can then turn down the master, but all you are doing is effectively turning those channels down and bringing an unnecessary fader into the equation. So do it on the channels. *****In digital systems you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT EXCEED 0dB, even if you wanted to. The exception here is when working at 32-bit floating point precision as Cubase etc etc do internally - that allows handling of numbers over 0dB. This is why you can, as Adam does, have all the channels running really hot into the master, then turn the master down to stop clipping there. On a real desk those channels would be clipped, not when working at 32-bit FP though, which gives over a thousand dB OVER 0 headroom BUT BUT BUT your soundcard outputs at 16 or 24-bit resolution, meaning that if your master hits 0dB, it WILL clip. There is a 'bottleneck' if you like, at the output (your DA convertors). So better to have nothing clipping at all.***** The thing to remember here n00bs - DO NOT allow your output to clip, and achieve that by controlling the channels, not by turning them allup and turning the master down. Sonically you won't notcie, but in terms of getting your mix right easily and without fucking about too more than is necessary, this is the way. At this point I refer all n00bs to the digital clipping thread. n00bs - gain structure - Code - 7th December 2005 Okay, gotcha... cheers Bob! n00bs - gain structure - M.T.NesZ - 7th December 2005 thanks macc!!! i'm just in the midle of trying to get a tune to sound right n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 7th December 2005 wotcher jurgen n00bs - gain structure - Code - 7th December 2005 Following on from what you said earlier Bob, would -9dB be around 30% of yer headroom and -12dB approx 10 - 15% approx ? Is there a formula for calculating it? n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 7th December 2005 - I just replied in detail and was absent-mindedly fiddling with something with my foot.. I realised what it was when something popped out and my computer turned off Anyway, dB is a relative scale, not absolute. It is a logatrithmic scale, so what you just said is incorrect. Secondly, even if you wanted to, you can't mix on paper by adding up percentages calculated from peak values. Mixing is waaay too complex for that... (The key words here are peak vs RMS. We're talking about peak volume, which doesn't tell you very much at all about perceived loudness, which is what you judge your mix on). In short, if there was a formula I wouldn't have to post all this shit on here for you cunts At your level Conor and co, just get these two principles into your head: 1) on your master fader, -6dB is half of your available headroom. More generally speaking, a change of 6dB is equivalent to a doubling/halving of the source value. 2) In a digital system, 0dB is absolutely 100% incontrovertable, unavoidable, unchangeable and err, your fucking daddy. You have to 'shoehorn' the elements in your tune into the available headroom - the more elements, the less loud each can afford to be (ignoring compression etc for simplicity here). As much as you may feel you can 'move the goalposts' by turning down the master fader, YOU CAN'T. All you are doing is making things harder for yourself. n00bs - gain structure - markgabba - 7th December 2005 ay good thread n00bs - gain structure - Code - 7th December 2005 Macc Wrote:At your level Conor and co, just get these two principles into your head: Okay! Gotit. n00bs - gain structure - Senator Adam - 7th December 2005 Macc, I'd buy you a beer, but I'm pretty damn far away... Instead I'll just give you a virtual one. Or two... n00bs - gain structure - bhima - 8th December 2005 Thanks Macc! Macc Wrote:At this point I refer all n00bs to the digital clipping thread. n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 8th December 2005 Yeah, there's some good info in that thread.... and you can read that long post where I caned bhima n00bs - gain structure - Code - 8th December 2005 Macc Wrote:Yeah, there's some good info in that thread.... and you can read that long post where I caned bhima Just did!!! Macc, you're a saint!!! n00bs - gain structure - bhima - 8th December 2005 Macc Wrote:nd you can read that long post where I caned bhima ( + )/ n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 8th December 2005 bhima Wrote:( + )/ = n00bs - gain structure - markgabba - 8th December 2005 bhima Wrote:Macc Wrote:nd you can read that long post where I caned bhima n00bs - gain structure - Düffah - 8th December 2005 When I read the topic subject, I thought it was about how to gain structure in your tunes... I really am a tosser, heh heh. n00bs - gain structure - dsp - 8th December 2005 macc, you got some thing very wrong on that original post . you missed a few smileys n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 9th December 2005 always happy to oblige... n00bs - gain structure - bhima - 9th December 2005 Macc Wrote: First time i've seen that one n00bs - gain structure - markgabba - 9th December 2005 what about this 1 n00bs - gain structure - Macc - 9th December 2005 Classiquex!! n00bs - gain structure - bhima - 9th December 2005 |