IS IT JUST ME OR......

goodness me, haxoring an internet dance musci radio station... that'll teach george bush a lesson...

I got myself into Jungle, Chris. On my own. I couldn't believe how good this thing I'd come across actually was and I crusaded for it from 94 until 96 pretty much alone

...From that point on, I became firmly typecast over here as 'the guy who plays the awkward/difficult/weird stuff', with the asociated suspicion that I was doing so simply to prove a point, or in order to make myself appear clever - not because I was playing the only stuff I could find that actually excited me...

You and I share some shockingly similar background in this regard. I got into it completely solo here via friends' from overseas sending tapes and reading about it, and then living in Denmark, going to parties there.

I too am now hopelessly typecast here as the 'weird' DJ.

Not that playing sets opening with Tom Waits, getting into King Tubby and ending with The Who helps matters!! (okay, to be fair, I don't confuse those nights with dnb nights)

But at this point, I'm deeply unhappy with my own efforts at production

And yet, you wrote what is, in my opinion, the best tune of 2002, a tune that is welded into the core of any set I play now, as is "Cat and Mouse."

...and altogether dissatisfied with what I believe to an unsatisfactory strategy by our isolated outcrops of 'alternative d+b' - which appears to be founded largely on the hope that it can all be magically turned around by putting out occasional 12"s... hoping that 'the drum n bass kids' somehow educate themselves and then somehow end up ditching their Dilly posters and badges and end up pledging allegiance to this 'new' sound..

I agree completely. I have little to no faith in the magical redemptive power of our music to convert kids for whom this is as inaccessible as Eric Dolphy really. No disrespect to anyone, but I think it's naive to think otherwise.

As I've said before, there are people--tens of thousands of them--who will buy and enjoy our music, but we won't find them on dnb dancefloors. We will find some, yes, but there are many more elsewhere. This is one of the lessons I'm learning the hard way with my album.

As Don Rosco said - my problem is that I'm always looking to do the impossible (within individual tracks, with this music etc.). He's probably right on that score, and I think I'm seeing that clearly now for the first time.

And I'll be the first to tell you not to give up seeking the impossible. Ultimately, you and I and like-minded people might really be the *most* naive of all but I'll be dead before I stop trying.

You see Naptha, I see where you're coming from, it's almost identical to Marlon's (Equinox) History. Included into that is the fact (and I mean no direspect here) he was SIGNED to a major(ish) label (Brain) at the time of his making music. I do know what you and Pete are saying though, while running a Pirate station I was also known as the "weird" DJ but I DIDN'T GIVE A FUCK, I just keep doing what I was doing and didn't fool myself into thinking that D&B would ever be a 9-5 for me. I not saying YOU have and it must be frustrating to feel that you run out of options, but the fact is that NOW more than ever, with all these people on this forum including me that are behind you and your music, you must feel that there is a bit of hope. Maybe I'm a fool, maybe I'm the erternal optomist, who knows.

When I started Technicality I always say that I'd rather have 30 people who were really into the music turn up than 200 fly-by-nites. I have consistantly lost money on that event, but I don't care! I'm not rich, but I love playing/making/being involved with the music I love. NOONE would put me off that.

There is no question that Dev Paradox has been an inspiration to me and the others on INP, mainly because he NEVER gave up! Speaking to him now, he's happier than ever, becasue he knows there's many people that are like minded to him and I guess that keeps him warm at night.....Its the same for me too. At first it was just me and Marl, but then I hooked up with ASC, Dev, Blame, Ross and all your crew, Damen (freeform) told me all about Pieter, played me his music and me and ASC were like "damn were NOT alone". I feel very proud to be able to call all you guys my peers and when I think back to that Hotel room in Miami, I realise now that I didn't know ANY of you guys. The more labels/DJ/artists athat get involved and send music to us as labels the better and that keeps ME warm at night. if you see what I mean........

All I'm saying is Naphta mate is that I understand how you must have felt 2-3 years ago I felt the same, but meeting up with the likes of you and others has help change that for the likes of me, Marlon and Senses for that matter, who was also lost in limbo until hooking up with us.......

I still get the strong impression that many contributors to this thread (bar Blue perhaps) are trusting in the "if it's good enough, eventually it will be recognised and be gven due credit" myth.

i firmly don't fit into that category. if people aren't paying attention to me, i have to adapt to their needs, or create an audience to fit my needs. inaction doesn't appear to be an option.

since we're all sharing histories...

i also got into this music without any help from pills, or raves, or friends - it was more by accident than anything, but what i heard sounded basically like everything i ever wanted out of music, all at once. this was 1996, but the track that really did it for me was from 1993 - my listening habits never really caught up with the music's evolution, aside from the hardcore revival thing.

but at the same time, i was also a raver, and i did go out in a teletubby backpack, fat pants, and a plastic chain to dance to cheesy progressive trance and disco house. i was pretty pretentious about drum and bass back then, but remembering what it was like to enjoy being high and dancing to fairly hook-heavy but superficial music makes it hard for me to look down on a modern drum and bass audience, which seems to be doing roughly the same thing. (are the audiences about the same in the other styles of 'more mainstream' dance music?)

i've stuck by drum and bass more for what i know it has the potential to be than for what it is right now - i don't mean to purport that i'm at a level where i can make it reach this potential, but how am i going to get to that level if i decide to pack it in and start making house?

i've known that making music is what i was 'supposed' to do since i was literally a little boy. quitting music altogether isn't an option - it makes as much sense to me as quitting breathing, or quitting eating. 'quitting drum and bass' would probably be a lot easier, but the truth is, my experiences so far haven't been in line with a lot of what people are talking about here. why give up on the way i'm doing it just because i feel defeated by the strong chance that there's no light at the end of the tunnel, or no end to the tunnel at all?

i'm young, optimistic, and foolish (though hopefully in a way that has some relevance to reality.) i don't want to waste it

I think it's useful and good to encourage those of us who are a bit more radical in our vision to lose the shackles of beholdenness to trad dnb structures (personified in my opinion by the Fabios and Riders of the world) while AT THE SAME TIME encouraging those willing to continue working within those structures.

nobody's efforts should be seen as mutually exclusive. if we're all trying to do this from different approaches, we can talk about what's worked for us and what hasn't and get a more complete picture of the best way to proceed.

I crusaded for it from 94 until 96 pretty much alone, in a city and country where 'dance music' was a blah blah blah.

PRETTY MUCH ALONE?? YEAH CHEERS GUY!!!!!



Ok chaps, this discussion is good and all, but is there anything going to practically arise from it? Can we at least agree on an initial step? A cover CD for knowledge / BP would be an ideal starting point but before we approach them we need to have agreed on a few things...Label owners need to speak directly to each other...how do we do dis ting?

Ross.

Ok chaps, this discussion is good and all, but is there anything going to practically arise from it? Can we at least agree on an initial step? A cover CD for knowledge / BP would be an ideal starting point but before we approach them we need to have agreed on a few things...Label owners need to speak directly to each other...how do we do dis ting?

Ross.

Can we incorporate a chatroom on this site...... Or maybe start another thread to disscuss this one thing......

why don't we all organize our labels and submit tunes for a comp for knowledge(or just a comp in general) and select someone to mix it? worst they can say is "no" and we seek alternatives.

on second thought....i think it would be better for the labels to each do their own comp cd's or what have you and push their labels.

these are all just ideas.......

- I vividly remember the first time I heard J Majik's Spaced Invader being played out at one our nights, and I felt completely lost -

As an aside, i think it's important to note that we're not the only people who have felt alienated within a musical genre. I often wonder are we just the distant cousins of some roots reggae fanatic that got out of reggae when it started turning into Dancehall, or someone who followed the jazz tradition through all its myriad forms to free jazz only to be told what is right and wrong by whatsisname marsalis, or some prog rocker who thought Yes and Hawkwind were the pinnacle of musical innovation and was horrified by punk and all it represented etc etc etc

What did they do? Can we do it too?!

can we incorporate a chatroom on this site

chat

look up, wayyyyyyy up

can we incorporate a chatroom on this site

chat

look up, wayyyyyyy up

what can i say? i'm a muppet

I often wonder are we just the distant cousins of...someone who followed the jazz tradition through all its myriad forms to free jazz only to be told what is right and wrong by whatsisname marsalis...

Sweet baby jeebus you fucking rule Don Rosco!

What did they do? Can we do it too?!

LESTER BOWIE FOUGHT WYNTON MARSALIS TOOTH AND NAIL AND IN MY EXCEPTIONALLY, EXQUISITELY HUMBLE OPINION, WON!!!!!!

Yeah, Wynton gotz the New Yorker ads and all that bling bling shiz, but Lester is in heaven chillin with Miles, talking smack about Wynton who wears a pork pie hat trying to bite Lester Young's style!

Sweet baby jeebus you fucking rule Don Rosco!

hehehehe doesnt he just!

PS : Dice we should really try to work together, since we're geographically not that far away from eachother.

I will John! I already have something in mind for after Summer recess!

Pieter mate, sorry I didnt reply to you, been off the net for quite some time, but yes, I did get it and THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED!!

here is an example of what a future human consumer will be thinking
-
Ive got it all, have had it all and have access to anything
I want all and any information I can
All this information…
I want it to be real & fresh, no pop charts, no chit chat, no best dressed
I will pay money to hear, on a cd, the music you hear in your own head. regardless of what you call it, what label you give it. I know by now, musical labels don’t really mean anything other than as reference. Generally I am interested in artists and not styles.
I spend a huge amount of time on the internet, the way kids in the 80s(etc) watched tv, but Im looking for the goodness, no cartoons. Im checkin out the learning channel. and when I do get out & go to the shops, I might buy an expensive 12”, but would rather buy an old $3 funk record. I rarely pick up magazines, I figure that you really have to come with a serious issue to beat the internet. and I would rather just check the websites of the artists and read their forums to get the most up-to-date info. Ill checkout as many online radio shows as I can, as well as any archived club nights, doesn’t matter where or when in the world, if they’re playin that fresh music, Ill listen -and later Ill look to find more about that artist or dj etc. I am actually listening to the music and paying attention, not trying to just lose it or have it.
I often look to the forums to find opinions on whos playing and and whos making this or that, sometimes a particular artist/dj/etc, is online/on a forum and you can surmise that their music offers a good deal of respect and integrity. (ie they are not untouchable, behind a velvet rope)
I cannot stand that poptart shit at any level, but I realize that this badboys, girlsgonewild’ etc, is a different thing altogether and so are the people involved.
(different? or maybe just gradient)
I know music can go rotten , so I stick to and search out the healthy lines, especially as this world becomes more and more pressurized , all those suckas get fat and slow, ever more trance gets made and they sell ever more ‘units’. damn. but really Ive only myself to blame for any opinions or ‘knowledge’ about that rottenness because, thinking about it takes up more memory than I have right now, and Id like to get deeper into this good music that’s clearly out there & available.
If there is an online shop and someone is putting out an album that has some good music, Ill buy it, online secure transaction -easy. Maybe at least just one free song or remix to satisfy me until the package comes??!!. I’ve still got a bit of that hunter/gatherer lineage so I still want some tangible, collectible thing to put on my shelf . but you know, vinyl is still super cool. there is a bit of ‘supply&demand-planned obsolescence’, vinyl has always been ‘on its way out’ .
but if ya got it in stock, Ill buy the 12” with the guest remix, download the free song, Ill get that album on CD please. I will listen to that set you have archived from last saturdays club night and I will tell all my friends about this great music and the website to buy it from. I might, if I have time, mix up some cds on my laptop (something to listen to while Im at work) after work Im going out to that new club to check that dj from abroad. Ill probably write some type of review of the dj and what he played on one of the forums I frequent, for the most part it will be thought provoking, critical and open to further discussion, unlike the vague, apathetic and closed reviews that are often found in magazines.
I did manage to buy one magazine because it had a good, in-depth 40 page interview/discussion with a group of artists that I had forgotten about. Something like this I would rather read in the park than via a screen.
I still go outdoors, I don’t live in low orbit yet, I can download everything but still need to have something to show. ( -and it looks like it will either be house/wife/dog & suburbs or opt for a more ‘urban’ lifestyle)
thanks to many pioneers from previous generations, I have a keen & well developed interest in good music from a wide variety of sources. with many factors assisting in making healthy and informed decisions & purchases.
-

V



http://www.wiredseniors.com/ageofreason/.

Shit man, John Peel's played me as well as others here and in my opinion, that's ten times cooler than Grooverider doing it.

John Peel played me too =O)

j

0=0

this thread is awesome..

yes yes!!!

virek

that was a wikked post..

summed up a lot of what I see in the real nuskool...

j

0=0

yeh...it gets more wicked as it goes along, it's snowballing!!!!!!





...don't forget about me, folks, i've always got mad tracks, bands, collabs, experiments, live p.a.s and general mayhem going, if we are on our way to opening up a new arena for new music i wanna be in touch!!!!!!!!!!!!



5371 recordings SF California [email protected]

Right. I've been laying off posting on this for a while because I reckon it's important that the label-heads get together and actually do something as a result of this thread, and I'm not sure that my input is required.

I'm with Ross on this, a knowledge CD could and should be organised. All this theorising is great but without anything actually being done with it, it is little more than a few dedicated heads in a small corner of the internet chatting. Which is great - but something really good could come of it.

Maybe a new thread about the CD would help? Does everyone think a knowledge CD would be a good idea? What about joint advertising? (a la nu-urban music - but without the shite records )

IMO there are 2 DJs you could ask to mix it (ideally) Bailey or (perhaps less so) Breakage - I know Breakage hasn't been DJing long but he has a pretty high profile at the moment which is what Knowledge would want. Bailey of course would be the best to do it, but it might be easier said than done - i'm sure he has a lot on his plate.

I'm still of the opinion that a name needs to be sorted - just as a collective name for all the different labels involvement together. Something music journalists can grab hold of and use to describe the movement. I'm not fully agreed with Naphta bout a split from the conventions of DnB distribution etc etc. (the 'scene' as it were) - i think perhaps both Chris and Naphta are right in different ways. Keep plugging away at the normal way of doing things but also try to expand into this new arena (whatever it is)

Peiter reckons that the Jungle/Hardcore split left hardcore in a very lonely place - fair enough, who's to say this 'new genre' would take the place of hardcore in the analogy?

Anyway, I didn't get much sleep last night so I'm going to stop now as my thoughts are a bit incoherent

Stacks

I so badly wanna contribute to this thread but its takem me forever to read thru it all. i'm only on page 8!!!!

I so badly wanna contribute to this thread but its takem me forever to read thru it all. i'm only on page 8!!!!

[strike]

I so badly wanna contribute to this thread but its takem me forever to read thru it all. i'm only on page 8!!!!

its an absolute EPIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I so badly wanna contribute to this thread but its takem me forever to read thru it all. i'm only on page 8!!!!

Now now lads, lets not take the piss of Neptune, look who he supports!!