Apart from tempo whats the difference between Dubstep & DnB?

i dont like the burial lp really

n-type was getting bare philosophical on his show last week - talking about what would happen if you had a motor that could drive around in space and drove to the edge of the universe and stuff, like is there a big stop sign or something. man is deep, burial can stick his tea

It's shortly going to be all about albums from Benga and Pinch. And the Hotflush compilation.

and box of dubs II

thing is, there's a big difference between what Skream and Shackleton do, just as there's a big difference between what Polska and Pendulum do, so bit tricky to make generalisations.

Erm, what Ben said.

But there's also a lot more of a sense that an individual can turn whatever style they're working in on its head - in DnB - even stuff that I like a lot -there are varied styles, but people tend to be refining what they can do with a given template or making slight tweaks to the edges of it rather than chucking all the elements up in the air and coming down with something really different but still somehow the same. Whereas in dubstep, to some extent, that's still happening. I think it's a feature of it being a young and fairly loosely defined genre.

[Macc]

Nice post Slothrop - it's a pain though, cos those that do have fun and 'chuck the things up in the air' in dnb - it does happen! - don't fit into a certain 'subgenre' *cringe* and so get discarded.

What I am getting at is that that's a scene failing, rather than an artist failing.

Or to put it another way, dubstep hasn't yet disappeared up its own hole.

has anyone heard that dubstep tune that sounds like someone just chopped the main loop from an autechre/brothomstates tune (forgotten which) and just added a snare and some glitchy effects and stuff?



(unless it was actually the dj just mixing/effecting the original in which case )

has anyone heard that dubstep tune that sounds like someone just chopped the main loop from an autechre/brothomstates tune (forgotten which) and just added a snare and some glitchy effects and stuff?



(unless it was actually the dj just mixing/effecting the original in which case )

sorta like source direct - stonekiller then?

Or to put it another way, dubstep hasn't yet disappeared up its own hole.

nah, it's well on the way though.

listen to a recent geeneus set for example, and then reference that against all the recent Ammunition/monopoly/dodgy business practises drama...

Why are the dubstep headz taking this thread negatively?? I have made no comment postitive or negetive about dubstep or DnB. Why are people so defensive about dupstep?

I am mearly stating that from what I have heard dupstep seems simular to DnB but slower. Hence me asking "whats the difference", hoping for some enlightenment from those who know more about dubstep than me.

but people tend to be refining what they can do with a given template or making slight tweaks to the edges of it rather than chucking all the elements up in the air and coming down with something really different but still somehow the same.

Yeah template producers tend to get on vinyl more. I class that as the crap side of dnb, but the majority of dnb I listen/play is not that.

What are we referring to as templates?

Most DnB I hear is still in the same time sig and still recognisably DnB to my ears. Even a lot of you guys who produce amongst my favourite DnB aren't necessarily that different as you might like to think.

By the way, I'm not saying making DnB in a different time signature is the sole method to "flipping the script", but I just don't see what makes some of you guys so different.

And another thing (I know I'm getting away from the thread's intitial topic somewhat nwo, but it's all a related train of thought), does everything have to be original?

Sometimes it's more impressive when a producer can make a tune I really like, the style or feel of which I've heard many times before, but the content of which is very good sounding (i.e. they make a tune that sounds really good, but which isn't necessarily that original.)

A lot of templates (this is what I interpret this to mean- things such as a fairly standard amount of bars of intro before maybe a breakdown and then a 'drop') are highly used because they work well. Refining the contents of an established template well is a bigger achievement than doing something original that simply doesn't sound as good!

Some dnb you could play at a Jazz night and know one would blink an eye, some you just couldn't.

By the way, I'm not saying making DnB in a different time signature is the sole method to "flipping the script", but I just don't see what makes some of you guys so different.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. Most of what I hear even among the people I like is incremental development of a template - and obviously expression of musical ideas within that template - you know roughly what you're going to get even if you don't know precisely how you're going to get it.

And that's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it is nice to have wtf moments from time to time, too. The sense of "holy crap, you can do anything in this music" is really quite exciting when you do get it.

Exceptions that spring to mind: a lot of Sileni's stuff, Bridge Over Broken Water, erm...

By the way, I'm not saying making DnB in a different time signature is the sole method to "flipping the script", but I just don't see what makes some of you guys so different.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. Most of what I hear even among the people I like is incremental development of a template - and obviously expression of musical ideas within that template - you know roughly what you're going to get even if you don't know precisely how you're going to get it.

And that's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it is nice to have wtf moments from time to time, too. The sense of "holy crap, you can do anything in this music" is really quite exciting when you do get it.

Exceptions that spring to mind: a lot of Sileni's stuff, Bridge Over Broken Water, erm...

The last 2 tunes I did sound absoultely nothing like each other all, apart from the tempo.

By the way, I'm not saying making DnB in a different time signature is the sole method to "flipping the script", but I just don't see what makes some of you guys so different.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. Most of what I hear even among the people I like is incremental development of a template - and obviously expression of musical ideas within that template - you know roughly what you're going to get even if you don't know precisely how you're going to get it.

And that's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it is nice to have wtf moments from time to time, too. The sense of "holy crap, you can do anything in this music" is really quite exciting when you do get it.

Exceptions that spring to mind: a lot of Sileni's stuff, Bridge Over Broken Water, erm...

Sure, but unlike Hardcore and Jungle, drum n bass was always about being 'proper' music from Day 1.

BARE KICK SNAREAGE is the defining reason why drum and bass / jungle is so much better than dubstep.

The last 2 tunes I did sound absoultely nothing like each other all, apart from the tempo.

I just listened to he dubs on your site and although there's a lot of stuff there I like, and a lot of it has an individual vibe to it, there's nothing there that makes me question my preconceptions of what drum and bass is. And that's not a criticism of your music because very very few people still do that for me.

Whereas with dubstep, you keep getting tunes like 2D (or even Fucking Nutter) by Skream, the Kode 9 mix of Skeng, Spongebob by Coki, Cockney Thug by Rusko, Night by Benga and Coki, Peverelist's Roll With The Punches, all sorts of Shackleton stuff Pinch's Pepper Spray... tunes that do things that you just didn't know were allowed.

n-type

Checked his myspace page

[Macc]

nothing there that makes me question my preconceptions of what drum and bass is.

.... tunes that do things that you just didn't know were allowed.

Certain things just become entrenched

The last 2 tunes I did sound absoultely nothing like each other all, apart from the tempo.

I just listened to he dubs on your site and although there's a lot of stuff there I like, and a lot of it has an individual vibe to it, there's nothing there that makes me question my preconceptions of what drum and bass is. And that's not a criticism of your music because very very few people still do that for me.

Whereas with dubstep, you keep getting tunes like 2D (or even Fucking Nutter) by Skream, the Kode 9 mix of Skeng, Spongebob by Coki, Cockney Thug by Rusko, Night by Benga and Coki, Peverelist's Roll With The Punches, all sorts of Shackleton stuff Pinch's Pepper Spray... tunes that do things that you just didn't know were allowed.

I'd say that's because dubstep is still a relatively new genre - dnb is a lot, lot older, most of the tunes that push the boundaries of a genre are made near the birth of it imo. So the majority of the "dnb" tunes that really pushed the boundaries of their genre were tunes from say 92 - 95 ..... after 15 years of 4/4 breakbeat based tunes between 150-180 bpm it's always gonna be hard to make something completely fresh and original sounding unlike anything else.

Whereas with dubstep, you keep getting tunes like 2D (or even Fucking Nutter) by Skream, the Kode 9 mix of Skeng, Spongebob by Coki, Cockney Thug by Rusko, Night by Benga and Coki, Peverelist's Roll With The Punches, all sorts of Shackleton stuff Pinch's Pepper Spray... tunes that do things that you just didn't know were allowed.

I'd say that's because dubstep is still a relatively new genre - dnb is a lot, lot older, most of the tunes that push the boundaries of a genre are made near the birth of it imo. So the majority of the "dnb" tunes that really pushed the boundaries of their genre were tunes from say 92 - 95 ..... after 15 years of 4/4 breakbeat based tunes between 150-180 bpm it's always gonna be hard to make something completely fresh and original sounding unlike anything else.

Yeah, totally, I'm not saying it's because the people making it are lazy arses or anything. Like Macc says, it's just that we've had almost 15 years for our idea of 'what jungle / dnb is' to become entrenched.

the last 2 tunes i did sound absoultely nothing like each other all, apart from the tempo.

i just listened to he dubs on your site and although there's a lot of stuff there i like, and a lot of it has an individual vibe to it, there's nothing there that makes me question my preconceptions of what drum and bass is. and that's not a criticism of your music because very very few people still do that for me.

the tunes are that site are very old (the link in my profile), there's newer stuff on http://www.myspace.com/labcreation but i kinda know where your coming from re entrenchment.

Some dnb you could play at a Jazz night and know one would blink an eye, some you just couldn't.

is that really drumandbass then tho, i mean surely its just jazz at a tempo thats similair to a dnb tempo

some dnb you could play at a jazz night and know one would blink an eye, some you just couldn't.

is that really drumandbass then tho, i mean surely its just jazz at a tempo thats similair to a dnb tempo

i suppose its both.

is dnb defined by more than just tempo, drums, & bass?