i can't belive how much this thread grew over nite-wtf?!?
i'm glad to hear people are moving on the same-minded collective (ala native tongues or def jux) as opposed to mining the rift. and the line up looks stellar-see if you can get hidden agenda or polar to attend as well (to dream...)! the break molesterz tour-coming to pervert the breaks in your town!
logistically it doesn't have to happen overnite-maybe it will cuz it seems like it's picking up steam pretty quick. but there's time yet-and i think the proposed lineup is really gonna pull from a lot of different backgournds and styles-this is a serious accomplishment when you look back at the earlier part of the thread.
just come to chicago-i dunno a damn thing about booking, but there's got to be a way to get you guys here!
Thats exactly what I was going to Say Pieter, we can't afford transatlantic flights but if we have an organizer in each territory, who is responsible for co-ordinating the dates, press and publicity for their territory that would be enough.
One banner one logo, one mission.
As for too many producers n labels for one cd. This is just the start. If we can't fit everybody in on the cd, the list I created isn't just producers, some are dj's some are promoters. There is also a crossover between some of the artists
for eg
Bailey dj
Senses inperspective/breakin
Equinox inperspective and bassbin hopefully
Breakage bassbin, breakin, inperspective
Dice (not sure if he is producing)
Brett (offshore)
Pieter K Breakbeat Science/
Streetbeats
Fracture and Neptune Inperspective/ Paradox Productions
Paradox Paradox/ offshore
Polska Solas Inperspective
Naphta Bassbin/ Breakin
ESB - Toron
Colin promoter
Dan ESB - Canada
Selini - Outsider/ Breakin
So as you can see we could push each label /producer in some shape or form on the cd and most definitely on the tour.
Rohan Wrote:Thats exactly what I was going to Say Pieter, we can't afford transatlantic flights but if we have an organizer in each territory, who is responsible for co-ordinating the dates, press and publicity for their territory that would be enough.
One banner one logo, one mission.
As for too many producers n labels for one cd. This is just the start. If we can't fit everybody in on the cd, the list I created isn't just producers, some are dj's some are promoters. There is also a crossover between some of the artists
for eg
Bailey dj
Senses inperspective/breakin
Equinox inperspective and bassbin hopefully
Breakage bassbin, breakin, inperspective
Dice (not sure if he is producing)
Brett (offshore)
Pieter K Breakbeat Science/
Streetbeats
Fracture and Neptune Inperspective/ Paradox Productions
Paradox Paradox/ offshore
Polska Solas Inperspective
Naphta Bassbin/ Breakin
ESB - Toron
Colin promoter
Dan ESB - Canada
Selini - Outsider/ Breakin
So as you can see we could push each label /producer in some shape or form on the cd and most definitely on the tour.
You know what Rohan, that looks more like a festival line up (as opposed to a tour one!!) Mybe that could be a start.......
0=0 Wrote:hahaha...the bside of "The Pain" on Boogie Beat (#32 I think)..
THE RETURN OF ZOBRA!!!!~!!!!!!()!)!)
oh god, what a bizarre track. what doesn't it sample!
Chris Inperspective Wrote:You know what Rohan, that looks more like a festival line up (as opposed to a tour one!!) Mybe that could be a start.......
I had the same thought, a festival could be another project for the future: the breakbeat version of "All Tomorrow's Parties" 
littleNemo Wrote:Chris Inperspective Wrote:You know what Rohan, that looks more like a festival line up (as opposed to a tour one!!) Mybe that could be a start.......
I had the same thought, a festival could be another project for the future: the breakbeat version of "All Tomorrow's Parties"
fucking word
Chris Inperspective Wrote:You know what Rohan, that looks more like a festival line up (as opposed to a tour one!!) Mybe that could be a start.......
Its a nice notion but the only problem i would forsee with that is that in order to do a festival type affair you need to have a solid backing to begin with...which is what is trying to be established here.....what does anyone else think?
Live stuff (as streetbeats have been saying for some time now) is the way forward......the way i look at it, the new forms and styles of jungle that have more content and soul, and emotion to them have more in common with music that orbital etc. were producing a few years ago than what is currentley the in sound of mainstream drum and bass. (im taking about this with a slightly outside perspective than most of the other people in this thread as i LIKE a LOT of the drum and bass that is around at the moment) but i like equally the more musical stuff that is being discussed here.
Anyway, back to what im saying, for a lot of people on here, music can be more than just something to dance to.....i know for me what sucked me into it was listening to tunes picking out all the subtle sounds, trying to figure out how many distinct rhythms were in there, what different little effects were used here and there, listening for when that little odd sound effect came back in.....but then.....when you stepped back the sounds joined together as a whole to form something with a life of its own with a rhythym and a groove that just felt right. Music can take you on a journey rather than a simple selection of tune after tune to make you move....which is something that live acts can carry off better than one man and his wax.
(lol...they should have that on bbc on sundays instead of sheepdog trials!)
Anyway, i suppose what im getting at here is that if any tour etc. is organised that it should possibly try to incoporate live elements to it as well as dj sets?
(sorry if im rambling a bit)
just thought that mr omni trio might be interested in all of this.....i used to have his email address but lost it 
anyone else know it?
chris inperspective Wrote:you know what rohan, that looks more like a festival line up (as opposed to a tour one!!) mybe that could be a start.......
that was how rock in opposition started 
if you're interested read this thread...
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/view...php?t=1588
here's an extract:
in 1978 henry cow invited four groups, from italy, sweden, france and belgium, to london, where we organised a festival under the name 'rock in opposition', as well as concerts for each group separately in other towns. (...) soon after this we all met again in switzerland to discuss our next moves and aims. the moves included further festivals in france, italy and sweden organised by member groups, and the arrangement of mutual tours in one another's countries. (...) we did, however, get on with a will running festivals, organising tours, distributing records and other practical work. this work continues, although 'rock in opposition' as a formal organisation has ceased to exist.
assessing the situation today it is plain that, although rio is no longer active as a formal organisation, rio as a cultural phenomenon is immeasurably strengthened. (...) today, all over western europe, like-minded groups, forced together by the pressure of commercial culture and by a common interest, form an informal but active and growing network of mutual support.
chris cutler, 1984
evergreen Wrote:what does this mean about the future of Streetbeats and Bassbin sub-labels and so on? i really think it'd be a great shame for such good music to never be released, or for the labels to cut themselves short. Offshore and Inperspective seem to be doing ok with putting out vinyl ... and yet they're able to stay true to jungle cut-up aesthetics without adopting the mainstream dnb sonic vocabulary (grrr grrr, bwaaaaaaaah etc). i think you guys make criminally overlooked music, and of course you'll release it however you feel is best, but maybe it's a bit premature to pack in the DJ format right now, especially as the state of the music is the best it's been in years most ways you look at it??? 
phew, made it to page eight now and been reading some life threatening suggestions...
I am a DJ first and foremost and when the kind of music that is appealing to me will no longer be released onto vinyl...what would happen to me? When I see people raving to 'Drum Sessions' 'Meltdown - UV mix' or even Naphta's 'U Ready': then why would I need to stop playing out and change into a pipe smoking chinstroker? I'm not ready to sit back and see the show...I used to go to concerts when I was a teenager...now I am ready to Rock 'n Roll...A fixed format imo is not the way, but it would make an interesting feat to what we are trying to establish...maybe if all the producer-artists are willing to take their show on the road and develop a performance, us DJs could then assist and truly have something out of the norm to appeal to the public..who will then see that this music can as well be 'head' music as 'feet' music...this is the way I have always felt about it from day one! And I have had cigarette buds flung at me for playing my shit!
p'zz
I swear i'm going to fucking kill myself, I just spent a fucking hour writing a fucking reply to this fucking thread and I lost the fucking thing by pressing fucking preview and pressing fucking back Oh god i'm so SNAPPING!!!!!!!!! 
anyway, here's the reprise:
If you don't know me(i've been away from regular interweb access for some time), i'm ross, I work with Naphta and Rohan in bassbin. V interesting and productive discussion so far, big up yourselves.
oh god i'm still snapping. Anyway, here's my thoughts, mostly practical as I'm not too hot on the theorising
1. a SPLIT. Unless someone wins the lottery then we pretty much have to work in current DnB structures, much as we would like to all have a distribution company that has an account with tons of shops. 0=0, i'm v interested to hear the nuts and bolts of how you go about distributing your records. I suppose if we're talking about doing a CD with knowledge then that much is self evident. I know I would be dubious about trying to sell an event that is explicitly not Drum and Bass in our town. Also. I feel a responsibility towards our DJs who play nearly exclusively 2 step new drum and bass. Where do they fit in? I certainly would like them to be able to express themselves however they would like to...
i'm still headwrecked about losing my previous post it was so fucking long aaaah I feel like smashing up the fucking computer  
2. I wholeheartedly agree with Naphta, Pieter and beckett when it comes to internet hostilities!!! Let's concentrate on celebrating music we love instead of slagging off that which we don't. It's all too easy to breath flame on an internet forum, which leads me to...
3. Don't let this just be a load of cunts talking to each other on the web!! This 'thing' we're talking about, whether it starts out with a cover CD (damn good place to start IMO, as it's relatively cheap) is going to be a logistical nightmare. BE PREPARED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING. How do we go about picking tracks for the CD?? Could I suggest, one track per label with each label paying a proportionate share? That would surely only amount to a few quid each...
Bassbin
Streetbeats
Inperspective
Outsider / Paradox
Warm Com
Offshore
0=0's label
Fracture & Neptune
Who am I missing??
what about Polar? Danny Breaks? Surely they have one or two tracks lying around they're doing nothing with...
Has anyone pointed out this thread to Heath and Clever from Warm Com and Offshore? It would be nice to get their input before we sign them up...
4. a tour, holy shit that's difficult. Pieter's right about franchising but it needs to amount to more than just a logo on a poster...this shit is going to be hard and it needs people to make decisions, which means we need some sort of 'decider'!!! Whether it be a committee or what, I don't really know...thoughts?? This whole thing will stand or fall on factors like this.
Any forwardbounders on here? Remember the forwardbound ep???? Let's not let it go like that, eh?
Ok, there was other stuff in my other post but it's too late for that...i'll check out the thread tomorrow and see what else yiz have come up with...v interesting stuff so far
Ross
ps STILL SNAPPING
a point to be made in regards to the health of this idea, is that what it has, is the ability to be archived on the internet and referred to by those involved and by future interests. something that doesnât quite exist with the discussions between mike banks and jeff mills or marc, dego, ian & gus or miles & coltrane â¦et al
it may be a good idea to âarchiveâ it now and get on with a Streetbeats CD Compilation with music from the people discussing this thread. In Celebration of the attitudes and vibes clearly present here. It could be done over volumes, over the years to commemorate this beginning. In the meantime a lot of leg work, clubs, festivals, worldwide could be cultivated and progress made into the existing infrastructure and channels.
dice Wrote:phew, made it to page eight now and been reading some life threatening suggestions...
I am a DJ first and foremost and when the kind of music that is appealing to me will no longer be released onto vinyl...what would happen to me? When I see people raving to 'Drum Sessions' 'Meltdown - UV mix' or even Naphta's 'U Ready': then why would I need to stop playing out and change into a pipe smoking chinstroker? I'm not ready to sit back and see the show...I used to go to concerts when I was a teenager...now I am ready to Rock 'n Roll...A fixed format imo is not the way, but it would make an interesting feat to what we are trying to establish...maybe if all the producer-artists are willing to take their show on the road and develop a performance, us DJs could then assist and truly have something out of the norm to appeal to the public..who will then see that this music can as well be 'head' music as 'feet' music...this is the way I have always felt about it from day one! And I have had cigarette buds flung at me for playing my shit!
p'zz
that's how i feel too. the beats & tunes need to come first-and i don't think anyone's excluding djs intentionally from the mix, but this is an important aspect to it if you want people more people to listen & be involved. it does make the music accessible when it's for the djs too.
i think the it's meant more to make the music heard first-thus the idea of a cd format so it can be heard this way. but the djs are the prostelitisers (sic)-they get it to the masses. maybe the producers are thinking along the ways of technology moving ahead-cds over vinyl in the long run-dunno myself-but this is dance music. the brockout is an important aspect to it.
there's room for both music as art, music for the feet and both combined, but that's the important aspect to it-the diy, "i can get involved and make my own music too". djing is the easiest way to do it musically & opens the doors on so many fronts. keep it like it was in '94, when people were doin this shit on basic setup in their bedrooms. keep it punk rock & keep it jungle (i guess they're about the same thing).
the other thing that has to be clarified is that djs and producers have to be willing to educate the listeners and be patient. the more rapidly the movement goes in the other direction the more likly this is to become academic and boring. the accessibility, the patience & the education work together well. it sounds stupid, but don't underestimate it.
but there are multiple ideas going on in this thread-the music, the aesthetic, the attitude, the format, cds v. 12''...there's a lot going on. perhaps some clarification is needed.
Making some sort of CD compilation is great idea. I would probably never got into the dnb if it wasnt for CD's. Back in 96/97 when I was first introduced to the music it was through few mp3's. At the time it was still not known technology, very few had any clue what it was. My first CD that I bought was the Metalheadz "Platinum Breakz 2" compilation. I remember driving home from the store listening and thinking how in the world was this made. Soon after I started buying other CD's, stuff like 4 Hero, Johny L, Photek, Source Direct etc. Never thought of the music as being a dj tool to play at parties. Not till few years later I was introduced to the music trough a friend that took me to a rave. I was bit suprised when the music sounded nothing like what I was brought up on. It was different, I went with the flow for about a year or so I went to every event there possibly was just to soak in the music. I got tired of it quickly and thats when I decided to start buying vinyl. At around 99 there was pretty bad selections , I didnt know where to find all the music that I listened on CD's. At the shop I was fed the RAMs, BAD COs, you get the picture. That wore off on me and then I started to really digin' the creates and finding what I was looking for all along.
Don Rosco Wrote:1. a SPLIT. Unless someone wins the lottery then we pretty much have to work in current DnB structures, much as we would like to all have a distribution company that has an account with tons of shops. 0=0, i'm v interested to hear the nuts and bolts of how you go about distributing your records. I suppose if we're talking about doing a CD with knowledge then that much is self evident. I know I would be dubious about trying to sell an event that is explicitly not Drum and Bass in our town. Also. I feel a responsibility towards our DJs who play nearly exclusively 2 step new drum and bass. Where do they fit in? I certainly would like them to be able to express themselves however they would like to...
Ross, I'm in full agreement to be honest, I don't believe the "sepratist" view is the right way to go........There are still other styles of D&B tracks that I and all the boys on inperspective are in to....
same thing with me...
and, to be totally honest, i don't think the musical content is there (yet) to force a split...
as dice said, just let it grow and things will happen
although i understand the connection for most with today's dnb is lost
Maybe a split as such isn't the way to go. But I think a new name under which to place this music and use as a banner over nights and CDs etc. isn't necessarily inicative of a total split. Look at 'liquid funk' or 'tech step' they are sub-genres and, horrible names though they are, they serve to differentiate the music from the rest of DnB. They give people who are into that sound a focus, somewhere to start from.
Ross:I don't think anyone is suggesting that Bassbin become breaks-eliteists and prevent DJs from playing 2 step tunes or anything like that. One of the best things about refuge is that you can turn up on any given week and hear a different style of DnB (or even better- a few styles in one night or *gasp* one set!). This is what always made refuge special for me.
I think the labels joining forces under a single umbrella term for projects that will benefit all concerned is where the future lies. It makes sense for organisations whose goals lie in similar directions to join forces to help each other out - the simplest example of this is the 'combined advert' idea that rohan suggested. I don't think this necessarily has to be about a tour either why not promote new releases from the labels concerned as a taster. Knowledge will then be more compelled to run a story on the new 'movement' (*bleeeurggghh*) - it's how the whole magazine business works - place an advert, get a story.
Stacks
yeh, totally stacks... the liquid funk term was launched by fabio's creative source compilation... something similar should be possible...
i'd still go for "new school jungle" or something like that... "jungle" just sounds so good  and is still popular by a huge amount of people
karbonkid Wrote:yeh, totally stacks... the liquid funk term was launched by fabio's creative source compilation...
he was calling his Radio One show "Liquid Funk" for a long time before the LP came out
karbonkid Wrote:yeh, totally stacks... the liquid funk term was launched by fabio's creative source compilation... something similar should be possible...
i'd still go for "new school jungle" or something like that... "jungle" just sounds so good and is still popular by a huge amount of people
You see? this is why I hate all this sub genre bollox. To me Jungle is all the ragga stuff "push up your lighter" and " fashion" etc etc. I was never into those styles Drum and Bass always described the music best to me, it covered all the angles....
If someone in the media or somewhere comes up with a name for what we do then fine, but to me, Inperspective is a Drum and Bass Label, it's that simple. Hope I don't sound too arrogent. 
I think someone mentioned LTJ Bukem before, his sepratist view gave him intial sucsess and there is no taking that away from him, but all the new school kids who didn't know about him becasue of his way, now don't care about him at all! The sales on GLR have proved that!! We're (Inperspective) already selling more than them I've been informed very recently.....Just ask Blame and Seba and the others that left GLR. It was so hard for them once they left BECAUSE GLR were seen as such an entity OUTSIDE "mainstream" D&B.
no problem at all chris!
to me jungle is everything up until '96, but i could have a wrong perception, cos i wasn't exactly into drum'n'bass at that time yet (but i do have a fair amount of pre 96 dnb vinyl now)
i'm here to learn... every fair comment on what i say is very welcome... i just feel very comfortable with your ways of going about the music... that's why i feel involved a tiny little bit already and wanna get some more involved cos this is music i wanna put energy in...
enough about me...  back to "business" 
i still think some sort of name as stacks was talking about is not a bad idea to get people to know about all this... could be wrong...
karbonkid Wrote:no problem at all chris!
to me jungle is everything up until '96, but i could have a wrong perception, cos i wasn't exactly into drum'n'bass at that time yet (but i do have a fair amount of pre 96 dnb vinyl now)
i'm here to learn... every fair comment on what i say is very welcome... i just feel very comfortable with your ways of going about the music... that's why i feel involved a tiny little bit already and wanna get some more involved cos this is music i wanna put energy in...
enough about me... back to "business"
i still think some sort of name as stacks was talking about is not a bad idea to get people to know about all this... could be wrong...
That's cool man, at the end of the day, one mans Jungle is another man's noise!!
To me, it's never REALLY mattered Jungle, D&B its all the same........to a point. The only lableling I usally do is call the material on Inperspective "progressive" eg "To Doggone funky" although that is slightly untrue because a number of the tracks are VERY old school in nature eg "filteration"
It's different coats for different folks at the end of the day..
Chris Inperspective Wrote:It's different coats for different folks at the end of the day..
yeah but you probably wouldn't wander into BHS looking for a coat - because the coats they have are all shit (at least i hope you wouldn't ) . Same way as I am unlikely to listen to a record that is in the 'dark-core' section of a record shop (or whatever). the point being that genre-labels are a necessary evil to distinguish style from each other. i'm all for the 'we're all one DnB family' ethos, but maybe sometimes that works against labels like SB, Inp, BB etc. I know a few people who buy vinyl from a multitude of genres but would never pick up a DnB record because of what they percieve DnB to be about (i.e snarly terchno hell). maybe if there was a sub-genre on the racks in the shops they might be more inclined to listen?
Stacks
P.S I'm very proud of my new avatar
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