D&b Music in 2006 & beyond?

You just have to worry when they get a megaphone and start calling out the stroke for you

i'll be the one doing that thank you very much.

FASTER, COME ON FASTER DAMN YOU.

NOW this is more my level....

i must be in the minority then because the mainstream is one of the ways i got into this music. and it didn't take long [less than a year] to refine my taste and realise what was shit and what was good.
but from experiences myself some people are just happy as pigs in shit musically...

Yes I think you are the exception to the rule. The overwhelming majority will make little effort to dig deeper as you have done.

jeezus u talk pap sometimes.

that's exactly how I started out in rave/acid music from the big commercial cheeze & then slowly but surely refining my tastes(somewhat) & checking out the roots of what I was hearing.

For instance 'Big Fun' Inner City....then leads onto investigations into kevin saunderson

then onto Juan Atkins (where u find out about the history of electro)

which then leads to derrick may (strings of life)

then u get to findout about the guy behind,notmany ppl know this,thattune Carl Craig (bug in a bassbin)

then onto Underground Resistance....

etc.....

Sure it's good if some people actually strive to look further... and there will always be certain individuals who do. But by the same argument, it's good that the Hollywood blockbuster formula exists, because some people who go to see, say, the latest Vin Diesel, will come out of it thinking: I must go and check some Arthouse movies... cos they're movies too. Do you agree with this? I think that you must - if your argument is to remain consistent.

they dont leave with that thought in mind but films like donnie darko,adaptation,american beauty,ringu dont become bighits just on chance & regular independent movie watchers alone,do they?

so a good percentage of the masses must have dug just that little bit deeper along the way.

there are some qualitee tits doing the rounds today. oo wee i love summer.

i was out shopping with the missus & saw this rather curvaceous younglady sitting outside having her tea break with what has 2 b th biggest pair of knockers I've ever seen in Ireland (not including Naphta & Code)

i was out shopping with the missus & saw this rather curvaceous younglady sitting outside having her tea break with what has 2 b th biggest pair of knockers I've ever seen in Ireland

tea break

godamn... great postings peeps, some really interesting points of view!

...talking of points, i aint seen any b00bs all day! gonna have to wait till i break free form the office and get down the pub after work... as audiosalad said.. this is great readin for killing time!

@ naphta, u do make some interesting points, and i dont doubt at all u know what ur talking about....

i guess from my point of view i like all styles of dnb, and the way i look at it is, its all good, coz its more dnb out there, so in turn its good for the scene and the future......and i stick by "newcomers need to hear the crap, b4 they hear the music within dnb"

i just didnt like ur 1st post at me i understand an hear what ur saying, but u just sound abit bitter man, seriously no offence, its like u were around in the good ol days, and u dont like all the music now, except what goes on around here....but theres enuff 'good music' out there 2 cater 4 everyone...

so finnaly 4me DNB = very healthy, more producers around, its worldwide, and its generally more popular than ever.....

so wen ppl post stuff like "dnb is dead" its like, well where r u getting that from? just bcoz there is more cheese out there getting recognised by the masses? or bcoz the old school producers we liked back in the day have sold out? or bought in

but there are so many new producers making the quality stuff we like, fuk the old school peeps who have sold out.....man enuff.....

big ups naphta, u make alot of good points (labels not releasing stuff on wax coz most ppl wont like it...)

but also there r loads of new labels which r releasing the good stuff....its only the big labels which may not, but i bet there arent many labels out there that wudnt release good music bcoz it wont appeal to the masses r there?

and FINNALY...people saying they "like that tune, but wudnt play it in a set" i can almost guarantee everyone thinks that in some context......

peace

i was out shopping

You .... were .... out - side ????

i always considered d&b as a new form derived from hip hop, soul, funk and techno, there's a whole host of music being made where none of this influence is present. i know drum & bass is a pallet where anything can be throw into the mix but every genre has bones and a body.

wicked point, i totally agree.... and pretty much the reason i championed paradox stuff as much as i could back when he was virtually alone pushing the cut-up rhythmic end... i mean: i never thought breaks were the be-all and end-all of drum n bass music, but his sound insisted on the importance of having some consciousness of the sonic roots of this music - which dnb's never-ending obsession with the 'new' ignored, to its detriment imo.

yeah, naphta has a good point. but what is this supposed to mean beyond a mere review of the situation in "the biz"? i mean, is there any lesson to be learned from it besides "the industry kills good music"? this is old news. (btw, i completely agree that the acceptance of mainstream dnb does absolutely nothing for a so-called leftfield scene)

no offense, but all this isn't exactly constructive, is it?

i understand what you say and my point is not to say that there is nothing that can be done by way of a response, just that there is a real necessity to be aware of the processes by which ideas or inspiration can be easily corrupted by money and business.

as i said before: drum'n'bass has become part of the mainstream, so why bother what the "big players" are doing? they have become pop-whores a while ago. so, why not find your niche and be happy. (just like it is in every other big genre, say rock, pop, jazz, techno)

i agree. you have to make your own mini-scene :d waiting for the larger dnb consciousness to return to its former glories is futile - those people are now in a completely differnt headspace, and they want different things out of life -and thus out of music - than they did 10 years ago.

urrrmmm the replies are getting bigger.... take cover....

I'm with beckett.. less talk more fat raves indeed........

ffs it's summer people...

I can do both. Went for a swim today, had a lovely barbie in the evening, and generally enjoyed the sight of all the ladies wearing less clothes Life goes on, but it don't mean we can't go deeper in a little online chat when we want

jeezus u talk pap sometimes.

that's exactly how I started out in rave/acid music from the big commercial cheeze & then slowly but surely refining my tastes(somewhat) & checking out the roots of what I was hearing.

For instance 'Big Fun' Inner City....then leads onto investigations into kevin saunderson

then onto Juan Atkins (where u find out about the history of electro)

which then leads to derrick may (strings of life)

then u get to findout about the guy behind,notmany ppl know this,thattune Carl Craig (bug in a bassbin)

then onto Underground Resistance....

etc.....

Big Fun is a great tune. Pop for sure, but not a cynical tired re-hash made up of the most cliched melodies and the most ear-splitting frequencies like the kinda shit I'm talking about.

I really don't know why you refuse to understand this every time I say it but I'll say it again - 'pop' or 'accessible to a broader audience' need not be shit at all - sometimes it's fantastic. But when it's served up with cynical professionalism, it sucks.

Maybe you can't tell the difference any more. But I can.

i had a few thoughts earlier about this but theyv'e gone clean out my head now, hope they come back to me. on the side these have been lingering:

one optimistic thing regarding paradox is the whole cross-pollination thing he seems to be doing by turning his sound a bit more formulated and faster in the last year or two - in order for people to take a bit more notice and i think it's working.

i know i'll probably get shit from the mega paradox fanboys on here [if there are any- don't want to cause offence] but all this talk of the new drumfunk this drumfunk that being amazing, forward thinking or classic etc etc - i don't buy it at all, and that interview that was on 1xtra a couple of months ago i could liken to when dillinja got interviewed by grooverider in 2003 - same viewpoints regarding style and what is good and liked, without really making a statement.

ie " well my fave tempo is 168, lets keep it slow"etc etc , so how come everything recent has been at the kitsche setting of 174 or just about? and the hatred for gabber speed music has risen 10bpm from interview to another?

:/

it's when i get that feeling from artists i switch off because all it is doing is lulling their fanbase into a further sense of security that things are progressing and everything is 'all good', the cliche.

granted all these releases from paradox/seba i have bought bar one or two but besides captain freak,shapeshifter, love her 12', stone cold and gold & diamonds the vibes remain quite monolithic and sometimes dull to me, as if chances aren't being taken any more in weird subgenres. that's what provokes me to look for other new artists because of boredom.

dunno what i'm trying to say here totally, just trying to breakdown this semiconcious annoyance in my head that niches' and leftfield sounds aren't necessarily any more interesting than the latest mainstream tracker, and that i hate this idea of people being pretentious about their music when the substance is altogether comparable [number of ideas and overall content wise] with stuff that they supposedly hate. it's like, "well what are you doing that's so great?"

big props to those artists anyhow, they have helped me get into the deeper stuff even moreso in 2004/5, you are a credit to the music. this is not a personal attack, just airing my views with one example i thought of first.
one wish is i hope seba makes another 'connected' or 'sonic winds'

i guess from my point of view i like all styles of dnb, and the way i look at it is, its all good, coz its more dnb out there, so in turn its good for the scene and the future......and i stick by "newcomers need to hear the crap, b4 they hear the music within dnb"

i dunno man, when i first heard breakbeat music, i immediately went for the kind of stuff that i still love today, early whitehouse, moving shadow, sub base, deejay/lucky spin... some of the biggest anthems in jungle/dnb featured on those labels, and to me, most have stood the test of time really well. i don't think that newcomers need be forced to wade through an assult course of shit music first - why is that necessary? how much better would it be - for everyone - iif this was not the case?

now one point i would make is that i agree that for some years there was a severe shortage of quality stuff that was aimed at the floor and at giving people hooks and vibes: this is the reason that i have returned to a junglistic framework for my own tunes, cos i witnessed a period when making dnb with popular appeal that was also challenging (structurally, rhythmically, sonically) was possible - therefore it can be done.

i just didnt like ur 1st post at me i understand an hear what ur saying, but u just sound abit bitter man, seriously no offence, its like u were around in the good ol days, and u dont like all the music now, except what goes on around here....but theres enuff 'good music' out there 2 cater 4 everyone...

well i didn't mean to offend, so sorry for that. i've just heard that argument - how shit dnb somehow helps the scene - many times befere and i think it's both largely untrue, and also a gift to those who have cynically sold out.... so it does kinda wind me up.

so wen ppl post stuff like "dnb is dead" its like, well where r u getting that from? just bcoz there is more cheese out there getting recognised by the masses? or bcoz the old school producers we liked back in the day have sold out? or bought in

but there are so many new producers making the quality stuff we like, fuk the old school peeps who have sold out.....man enuff.....

i have never said that dnb is dead. but those still comitted to pushing the less obviously commercial stuff are all well aware of what they're up against, and the scene it self has proved little help to such people - and often an active obstacle.

but also there r loads of new labels which r releasing the good stuff....its only the big labels which may not, but i bet there arent many labels out there that wudnt release good music bcoz it wont appeal to the masses r there?

nah mate. quite the opposite.

and finnaly...people saying they "like that tune, but wudnt play it in a set" i can almost guarantee everyone thinks that in some context......

yeah for sure... but i always thought it was my responsibility as a dj not ust to give people what they want, but to push them further too, to challenge them to some degree. anything less than that, and you may as well just stick on a mix cd and save money on djs when you're running a night. :d

peace

just for the sake of ranting, i love how the general magazine media of d&b are proclaiming how 'jungle is back' and then not calling hardly any of the stuff that actually sounds like real jungle by its' name.
as if everything that hasn't got a vocal or the all out monotonous power of say, original nuttah [eurgh] is bracketed off into the side reviews. talk about playing it safe or giving false praises to music which steals the old samples whacks a 2 step beat underneath them and some 'dubbiness', jesus it's cringe-making to read.
only good thing about getting knowledge was that clever mix!

one optimistic thing regarding Paradox is the whole cross-pollination thing he seems to be doing by turning his sound a bit more formulated and faster in the last year or two - in order for people to take a bit more notice and i think it's working.

Yeah, I agree. I'm glad to see Paradox interacting more with the Scene - even if much of what he's done since ain't exciting me so much personally these days. His stuff with Seba has certainly helped to open some minds and the sheer volume of releases has forced the Scene to take some notice at last... and crucially, without buying into someone else's concept of what sounds or shapes dnb needs to have.

dunno what i'm trying to say here totally, just trying to breakdown this semiconcious annoyance in my head that niches' and leftfield sounds aren't necessarily any more interesting than the latest mainstream tracker, and that i hate this idea of people being pretentious about their music when the substance is altogether comparable [number of ideas and overall content wise] with stuff that they supposedly hate. it's like, "well what are you doing that's so great?"

Again, I agree. And at the end of the day, my response to music is ALWAYS dictated by feelings first - the thoughts or analysis (if there is any) come later.

ok naphta i c were ur coming from man, and wen i said "dnb is dead" i wasnt reffering 2u, just alot of ppl's views i hear,and that annoyes me....but big ups on ur views coz i agree with stuff u say, just with a small twist from my own personal views on things...

and also wen i mix out i play a mixture or things, a variety of all kinds of stuff, just good music, but i like dropping say for e.g the new limewax bit (no1 start plz ) coz i like seeing ppl dancing and going abit crazy, coz thoose tunes r always heavy and go down well (but i do also like them)....but that mixed in with ppl like asc / amit / macc to name a few.....ok where going off the topic here.....

peace

[Statto]

ie " well my fave tempo is 168, lets keep it slow"etc etc , so how come everything recent has been at the kitsche setting of 174 or just about? and the hatred for gabber speed music has risen 10bpm from interview to another?

sort of off topic...

the problem with a lot of dnb tempo nowadays is that it sounds that fast due to the extremely short loops being used; e.g. dum chick duhduhluh chick, dum chick duhduhluh chick, dum chick duhduhluh chick... leaving no room for listeners to adjust how they hear the tempo.

gabba goes bam bam bam bam bam and the tempo is almost irrelevant; old dnb was fast but the beat could be heard half speed; new dnb can't so it's just irritating.

i really hate short skippy drum loops.

its not fast enough imo, chipmunk vocals and +8 all the way

great thread.

i think the fact that you have dnb raves around the globe highlights just how popular the music is.

the music will only evolve, never die

ie " well my fave tempo is 168, lets keep it slow"etc etc , so how come everything recent has been at the kitsche setting of 174 or just about? and the hatred for gabber speed music has risen 10bpm from interview to another?

sort of off topic...

the problem with a lot of dnb tempo nowadays is that it sounds that fast due to the extremely short loops being used; e.g. dum chick duhduhluh chick, dum chick duhduhluh chick, dum chick duhduhluh chick... leaving no room for listeners to adjust how they hear the tempo.

gabba goes bam bam bam bam bam and the tempo is almost irrelevant; old dnb was fast but the beat could be heard half speed; new dnb can't so it's just irritating.

Plus the bass is all about midrange aggro emphasising the speed rather than subby calmness contrasting with it. Come to think of it, the lack of contrast is the big thing that turns me off a lot of mainstream dnb - you've got the all sweetness and light liquid stuff and the all darkness and agression nu-metal step and never the twain shall meet.

Speaking of Paradox making inroads into the mainstream, it sounds like the new Breakage stuff (ie the album, with the general absence of intense edits) could do the same - is there any evidence of this happening? I'm a bit provincial and don't get out enough...

its not fast enough imo, chipmunk vocals and +8 all the way

i really really really want to hear what would happen if the techstep / clownstep massive rediscovered ardkore. m1 piano riffs would be nice, too...

[Macc]

dagh please god not the m1 piano!!


my list:

more key/chord changes
more other breaks
more personality
more cowbell (really!)
more actual instruments (although that's a more personal thing)
more naturalism (personal again)
a freer approach to structure (12 bar dnb )
more trumpet :d

less trying to recapture any vibe of any given year

its not fast enough imo, chipmunk vocals and +8 all the way

i really really really want to hear what would happen if the techstep / clownstep massive rediscovered ardkore. m1 piano riffs would be nice, too...

its called happy hardcore! :d

its not fast enough imo, chipmunk vocals and +8 all the way

i really really really want to hear what would happen if the techstep / clownstep massive rediscovered ardkore. m1 piano riffs would be nice, too...

http://www.imorecords.com/mp3/16037-1-b.mp3 = hardcore

http://www.imorecords.com/mp3/19299-1-c.mp3 = hardcore

http://www.imorecords.com/mp3/19647-1.mp3 = drum and bass

http://www.imorecords.com/mp3/15247-1.mp3 = drum and bass